[UPDATE: My notes are in the comments. This debate was wild and kind of wacky. Overall, I thought Clinton did well (as she always does in debates). I'd also say that Richardson had his best debate performance and was a crowd favorite. Edwards did well, but nothing really jumped out at me. Obama got pounded on Pakistan, other than that did ok. Kucinich did well, but he's at like 1% in the polls. Dodd...good hair! Biden...best answer was the one-word one. Where was Grandpa Simpson...er, Gravel?]
He is right "We have got to put a stop to this".
Obama had similar sentiments. Kudos to both.
Obama: Soldier Field - absolutely it was the right call, because it put people to work. Created an enormous opportunity for economic growth.
Richardson: Sell toll roads to private companies? No, privatization is not the answer. Thanks the unions and says he will continue taking their financial support. Eliminate $23 billion for Congressional earmarks. Ensure corporate welfare - $73 billion worth - is eliminated. Invest in power grid, bridges, highways. Commuter rail. New infrastructure in America. Smart growth, strong land use policies. New forms of transportation.
Richardson: We should never have another trade agreement unless it enforces labor, environmental, etc. No child labor, no slave labor, collective bargaining. My first day as President, I will get rid of union busting attorneys at Labor, OSHA, other Federal agencies.
Obama; Immediately call the President of Mexico and Canada to amend NAFTA, get labor agreements in there right now. Our trade agreements should not just be good for Wall Street, also for Main Street. Make sure our agreements are good for everybody. Same winners and same losers everytime, we've got to mix it up. Need a President who's not subject simply to the whims of corporate lobbyists. Make certain YOU have a voice.
Biden: President's job is to create jobs, not export jobs. Take President of Mexico and Canada to the mat.
Dodd: Modification. Labor, enviro, health provisions. Also need to stop exporting jobs that already are here. Ban outsourcing of jobs. For 26 years, on every major issue labor's been involved with, I've stood with you. Stand up for American worker.
Edwards: Fix it. NAFTA is a perfect example of the bigger problem - negotiated by Washington insiders, not by people in this stadium.
Kucinich: Direct answe - in my first week in office, I'll notify Mexico and Canada we're withdrawing from NAFTA, withdraw from the WTO. Trade based on workers' rights, environmental standards.
Clinton: I'm just taking it all in. I'm here because I think we ought to change America, not to fight with other Democrats. I want a united Dem. Party. For 15 years, I've stood against right-wing machine. If you want a winner who knows how to take them on, I'm your girl.
Obama: People don't want a cheaper t-shirt if they're losing a job in the process. Globalization is here. We should be trading around the world. The question, on whose behalf is the President negotiating - the people in this stadium or corporate profits? Congress has a responsibility. Don't reward companies that are moving jobs overseas. Reflection of special interests.
Obama: Competitor, but they don't have to be an enemy. Negotiate aggressively to look after American workers. Don't run up deficits and ask China to bail us out and finance them. Tough to negotiate when China is our banker.
Biden: They're neither. They hold the mortgage on our house. To fund the war and tax cuts for rich, we're in debt $1 trillion to China.
Clinton: Amen to Joe Biden. 6 1/2 years ago we had a surplus. It is absolutely true that George Bush has put it on the credit card. Need to get back to fiscal responsibility, deal with China's currency manipulation, tougher standards on what we import from China, be tougher on China going forward.
Dodd: Competitor, close to adversary. Deal with China currency situation. China's investing in its military. If we're not careful, we could face some serious problems with China. We need to insist that we have access to their marketplace.
Edwards: Competitor. Human rights abuses. Trade safety - 2 million toys that had to be recalled. Country of origin labeling.
Kucinich: Time to worry about China trade was when some of my friends on the stage voted for MFN. If you dig a hole deep enough, you'll get to China - we're there. A working person's President.
Obama: If we had followed my judgment originally, we wouldn't have been in Iraq. Now, we have bad options and worse options. Need to begin a phased redeployment so we don't have anti-American sentiment as focal point for Al Qaeda.
Biden: Bush has not told the truth for 7 years. The truth is if Al Qaeda establishes a base in Iraq, we'll have to send kids back to Iraq. Separate the parties in Iraq, let them be in regions, give them control of their security, limited central government, draw down our troops.
Clinton: Three-point plan to get out of Iraq. Get troops out responsibly and carefully, get our smarter than we got in. Pressure on Iraqi government. Intensive diplomatic effort regionally and internationally. Stay focused on keeping Al Qaeda on the run as we're doing in Al Anbar province.
Dodd: Gratitude to troops in Iraq. They haven't failed, our policy has. Begin redeploying immediately. Robust approach on diplomacy. Statecraft and diplomacy is not a sign of weakness or gift to our opponents. We shouldn't be selling arms to Saudi Arabia while they're refusing to support us in Iraq.
Edwards: We have to prepare for that possibility. Draw 40,000-50,000 troops out today. Some kind of political reconciliation. Diplomatic effort. Prepare for if things go bad. Worst possibility - genocide breaks out.
Kucinich: Get out of Iraq and get out of Iraq now. International security and peacekeeping force to stabilize Iraq. Voted against war and against funding for the war.
Clinton: This is George Bush's war, but these are our sons and daughters serving in this war. Force Bush to end the war.
Dodd: Words mean things. Issues about Pakistan - Musharraf is no Thomas Jefferson, but may be the only thing standing between a fundamentalist dictatorship. Irresponsible, wrong for Obama to say what he said. We have to work with allies, including ones we don't particularly like.
Obama: I find it amusing that those who helped authorize the biggest foreign policy disaster in our history are now criticizing me. Chris, you obviously didn't read our speech. We need to get out of Iraq, refocus, deal with Al Qaeda. If we have actionable intelligence, and Musharraf can't act, we should. It's just commonsense. You authorized an attack where the people who didn't attack 3,000 Americans are not....
Clinton: I do not believe people running for President should engage in hypotheticals. I think it is a very big mistake to telegraph that and to destabilize the Musharraf regime. Pakistan has nuclear weapons; the last thing we want is Taliban in charge of Pakistan. You shouldn't always say everything you think if you're running for President.
Dodd: I made a mistake on that vote. You should admit that you made a mistake about going in unilaterally into Pakistan.
Obama: I did not say we'd go in immediately, unilaterally. I said we have to work with Musharraf. Give him military aid contingent on him doing something about northwestern Pakistan.
"You shouldn't always say everything you think if you're running for President?" You shouldn't be President if you engage in that kind of elitist crap. We the People deserve better answers and explanations than that.
(Also, Clinton's pretty good, herself, at collecting the boos, lately.)
2. The Bush administration does not comply with the laws or respect the Constitution, lied to take us into Iraq, and now you want to attack Senator Obama on foreign policy with more lies.
The major challenge going forward from both a strategic and tactical level is how do we deal with dangerous non-state actors -- the international system just is not set up to deal with these types of organizations. This is absolutely the type of thing we need to be discussing in this campaign, not the soundbite crap. The fact that Obama is trying to make a substantive point that we may have to make tough decisions regarding dealing with groups like al Qaeda in sanctuaries protected by territorial sovereignty is a very hard question, and he deserves credit for broaching it. The fact that the rest of the insiders keep bashing him for it makes me like him even more.
I'm sorry to say Senator Biden is tonight's Mike Gravel .....
Biden: Returns to Pakistan question...it's time everybody starts to know the facts about Pakistan. (boos)
Rights of workers to form a union
Kucinich: I am a member of the AFL-CIO. I've been working with unions my whole life. Basic right in a democratic society - right to decent wages, right to safe workplace, right to participate in political process.
Iraq war veteran - factory job had moved to Mexico
Richardson: I would protect pensions, health care, insure job protection, OSHA protection. When you come home as an Iraqi war veteran, I would have guarantees to protect our veterans. Funding for VA hospitals, plus "heroes health card."
Why my daughter forced to buy her own uniform, gear. Why deployed for more than double normal time.
Dodd: I'm only candidate who served in national guard and reserves. Body armor and equipment available to our troops, I was rebuffed by Republicans. Our soldiers deserve the best we have to offer.
Health care - what's wrong with American and what will you do to change it? Very emotional question. Huge audience cheers for questioner.
Edwards: Bless you, first of all. You're a perfect example of what's wrong with American on health care and pension protection. We ought to treat CEOs of company the same way as every other worker in the company. Universal health care, we need it in the worst kind of way. I intend to be the President who explains to America how important unions and organized labor are to the future of America. I've walked picket lines 200 times. Who was with you in crunch time? Who will stand with you when it really matters?
Pensions.
Clinton: Thanks all the questioners. Snapshot of all the problems in America. Pension system is broken. Have to have defined benefit pension plans again...[my connection cut out at this point]
The comment about Hillary on the cover of Fortune mag was priceless. I mean. we are frickin Democrats for pete's sake. What the hell is she doing on the cover of big business mag.
Richardson: My VP would not be Dick Cheney. My VP would be a member of the Executive Branch. Have the ability to step into the job of President. Any of these here on the stage would be an excellent VP.
Lobbyists
Clinton: We've got to have fundamental reform in Washington. End no-bid contracts, revolving door in government, get rid of contracting out government jobs. I have fought against a lot of special interests for a very long time.
Money from lobbyists, bundling
Obama: I do not have federal registered lobbyists bundling for me, don't take PAC money. People in this stadium need to know who we're going to fight for. Reason I'm running for President is because of you, not because of the folks who are writing big checks.
Trial lawyers.
Edwards: Very different from lobbyists. If lawyers give money to a jury, that's called a bribe. Lobbyists give money to politicians, that's called politics. America needs change. Dem Party stand up for working men and women.
Republican Homeland Security or Pentagon?
Biden: I would consider it. Next President has to bring this country together. We can't do anything with a 51% solution. We need consensus. I would consider most competent people I could, reach across aisle unite this country.
Homeland Security Department
Dodd: Too large, people should be able to collectively bargain. We're not safer today, even though we haven't had an attack on our soil. Terrorism's a real issue, it's a tactic not a philosophy. First responders - firefighters, police, EMS - have not been funded. We're more vulnerable than right after 9/11.
Accomplishments since 2006 elections
Kucinich: I'm trying to lead Democrats. We need to get out of Iraq, I'm working all the time to get Dems to keep that promise. I've been there for every single piece of legislation. Dem. Congress needs to act now.
Barry Bonds
Obama: First of all, he's still gotta hit one more. Hank Aaron is what sports are all about, people can look up to him. We have enough cynicism in politics without cynicism in sports.
Katrina/New Orleans
Clinton: Put someone in charge who actually cared about people of New Orleans and Gulf Coast. Make sure White House has person who reports to President. Rebuilding New Orleans is an American problem.
Pledge to stop no bid contracts
Biden: Yes.
Obama: Campaigns last too long and they cost too much money, too many Washington insiders. Bush has been a disaster. Make sure we don't have another Republican in office. Mobilize Americans across race, region, faith. Change happens from bottom up.
Biden: Reason it starts so early now is because we're so angry, so frustrated.
Clinton: I'm not going to worry about it. Gonna get to work - so much to do. I want people to stay focused on what we have to accomplish together. Lots of repair work together. We've gotta clean the place up.
Dodd: This campaign started early not from the top down, but from the bottom up. People demanding answers. If this were a parliamentary system, Bush would be gone. If we start doing the job...health care, education, environment, America will respect that.
Edwards: It's definitely too long. Publicly finance political campaign. We need change in this country in the worst possible way.
Kucinich: I'm the Seabiscuit of this campaign, will come from behind to win this campaign. Kucinich for 8 years.
Clinton: Get's the "10 point plan" award ... a plan for everything
Dodd & Biden: Looked to attack Obama and Edwards at every turn ... and showing their mean side ... both seem to be taking the Cheney role and prove to HRC she should look to them for V-P
Edwards: Stayed on his talking points ...
Kucinich: Award for the longest sleeves ... took away suppport for Edwards ... won the audience ...
Obama: Under attack all night and stayed composed.
I feel that Obama was attacked from many sides on his position to go into Afghanistan to get OBL with or without Mushariff. Did he deflect attacks well enough?
Clinton - Well I can't warm up to her. She is shameless when it comes to DC lobbyist contributions. She is wrong on so many labor and trade issues I don't know where to begin.
Edwards - great advocate of labor. I hope he gains from this.
Clinton was a pro as always. She is just fucking dead wrong on so many issues that I just don't give a shit how smooth she is.
Obama is just too inexperienced. totally fucked up the Pakistan thing badly. But he is a phenomenon for a reason.
Edwards did well on all the union issues of course. he is by far the most accomplished and genuine on those issues. The fact that they had to point out he was from a right to work state (like he had anything to do with that) is indicitave of how far they will go to try to fuck him, even on issues where he is by far the most obvious choice for labor.
Foul language in your general vocabulary reduces the impact of such words.
Do you have a policy regarding the use of foul language on your site? I rarely see it. On Kos there is prolific use of it, unfortunately.
(emphasis mine)
ABC News' Rick Klein Reports: Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, under fire from her rivals for accepting campaign contributions from lobbyists, will head directly from a labor forum in Chicago to a fundraiser at a lobbyist's home Tuesday evening.
Not posting this as a Hillary basher! Just food for thought...
She can call them campaign contributions, but we all know that lobbyists donate money and expect results. They are bribes.
Senator Edwards had a good point. If you give lobbyist money to a jury it is a bribe. If you give lobbyist money to Congress, it is a contribution.
From here on out, I will refer to DC lobbyist money as bribes. You can call it spin, I call it an accurate description of the practice.
Tonight we even heard some spontaneous boos, as when Senator Biden crassly and thoughtlessly blew off the miner's widow, rather than try to answer her question. Bye-bye, Biden. That was a major turn-off.
Hope that we see more of this before February 5th, 2008. Enjoyed watching Obama and Hillary going toe-to-toe rather than making nice. Given her history of support for the Bush/Cheney approach in the Gulf, Hillary will have a hard time winning the debate over the occupation of Iraq and the conduct of the "War on Terror" in Afghanistan and elsewhere. "Bush-Cheney lite" is not likely to be too popular by early next year.
Kucinich, though a mere asterisk in the polls, seemed more coherent--and more genuinely supportive of labor's interests--than many in the "top tier."
It was Edwards' crowd to lose, and maybe he did, despite his passionate stump presence. Labor may not see past his haircut to appreciate his rise from real poverty and his up-by-the-bootstraps story.
Richardson and Dodd? Ho hum. Richardson tends to mis-speak and miss the point. Dodd is to facile to drive home his points, though he is clearly a very bright man. But perhaps it is time for the two of them to consider folding their tents. Neither seems to be gaining real traction.
WINNERSBarack Obama: Apropos of the debate's setting at Soldier Field, Obama enjoyed a home-field advantage over his rivals last night. The crowd was looking for reasons to cheer Obama and he gave them some. The best? His retort to attacks on his foreign policy bona fides; "I find it amusing that those who helped to authorize and engineer the biggest foreign policy disaster of our generation are now criticizing me for making sure we are on the right battlefield and not the wrong battlefield in the war on terror," Obama said to huge applause. He was under attack for much of the debate from the likes of Sen. Chris Dodd (Conn.) and Joe Biden (Del.) and managed to hold his own.
Hillary Rodham Clinton: This was an interesting debate for Clinton as she experienced moments of both cheering and jeering from the crowd -- a reminder that no candidate incites emotions (both good and bad) from voters more than Clinton. When attacked by former Sen. John Edwards (N.C.) about her ties to corporate America, Clinton resisted a direct push back. Instead she delivered her most effective lines of the night, urging Democrats to work together rather than fight amongst themselves and pivoting to make a pitch for electability; "If you want a winner, I am your girl," Clinton said to loud applause. Her careful scolding of Obama on foreign policy ("people running for president should not engage in hypotheticals") brought her loud boos. Also, did anyone else notice that Clinton has a fill-in-the-blank point plan for everything?
Joe Biden: After playing the nice guy for most of the campaign, Biden seemed to boil over last night -- particularly at Obama and Edwards. Biden and Connecticut Sen. Chris Dodd have clearly been frustrated by the rise of Obama and Edwards as well as the latter duo's willingness to attack Washington and call for a shakeup in the politics as usual. Biden hit Obama on his policy toward Pakistan and Edwards on his labor credentials. Neither attack was all that well-received by the assembled crowd but it kept Biden at the center of the debate and allowed him to draw some contrasts with his better-known opponents. Plus, if Clinton winds up as president, Biden could well wind up as Secretary of State. Of course, if Obama or Edwards is president....
Dennis Kucinich: Give Kucinich his due: he was great last night. Of course, unlike the rest of the candidates on stage, Kucinich is not bound by concerns over saying something that might make him unelectable in a primary or general election. His miniscule chance of winning frees him to speak his mind on the war in Iraq, NAFTA, health care and anything else he is asked about. Kucinich continues to play the happy warrior in this race, delivering his plans and criticisms of his rivals with a smile on his face. Also, you've gotta love a candidate who eggs the crowd on repeatedly at the end of his answers.
Alpacas: Nice ad placement by allies of the alpaca. The commercial ran during the last commercial break of the debate and surely got more attention paid to the animal in 60 seconds than it received in the last 60 days. Did you know alpaca comes in 22 natural colors? It's the "new spin on fashion," according to the ad.
LOSERS
John Edwards: We've never seen Edwards more on his game than he was over the weekend at the YearlyKos forum. He conveyed genuine passion and outrage while also managing to put Clinton on her heels for the first time in this campaign. Last night, Edwards seemed to be forcing it, using totally unrelated questions to try and cast himself as the candidate of change. We still like the line "we can't trade our insiders for their insiders" but it can't just come out of nowhere. Edwards' anger can work for him and against him. At his best, he matches the outrage of Democratic voters fed up with President Bush and the war; at his worst, he can seem mean-spirited. Last night was more of the latter than the former.
Lobbyists: It started over the weekend and it only got worse for influence peddlers last night. Obama and Edwards seem convinced that bashing lobbyists and Clinton's connections to lobbyists is a sure-fire way to cast themselves as outsiders. First Jack Abramoff and now this. It's been a bad few years.