but given the unique approach that Alexandria is taking, it would be nice to have a sense of whether this will stand up in court, or whether the shills for the tobacco companies will find a way to overturn it.

Temper your activism with reason.  This is probably a poor idea given Virginia's status as a Dillon rule state.  Arlingtonians and Virginians at-large would be better served by seeking an exemption from the Dillon Rule in Title 15.2, rather than wasting resources on the "showdown" in the courts. 

Does anyone have any stats on how the DC smoking ban has affected Arlington night-life and tax revenues? I'd wager Arlington has benefited. 

There hasn't been any study of the true economic impact of DC's smoking ban.  A DC restaurant group put out a press release saying 35% of their members say business is down.  But it only represents like 12% of DC restaurants ... and there were no numbers attached ... and the group opposed the ban ... so it was pretty suspect.

Here in Arlington, I haven't heard anything, but you'd think if business was up, people would be crowing about it.

So the bottom line, so far, it doesn't seem like business in DC or Arlington has been affected.  And if business hasn't been affected, is there any counterargument left for not banning smoking in bars and restaurants?  As for the legal cost, some things are worth fighting for.

Smoking in restaurants and bars harms employees, who may not have much option to just up and quit.  That's not right, especially given that we're talking about a known carcinogen.  Would we let people come in and spray employees with asbestos?  Obviously not, so why should we let them puff on their cancer sticks and blow the smoke in employees' faces?

Not a smoker, never have been but hate to see the ramifications of using the arguement that the ban is more about the care and well-being of employees, frankly its not. Its about the comfort levels of those who would wish it be removed from where they are eating. The arguement around the employment issue is invalid and here why....restaurant survey, ie industry surveys show that over 70% of all restuarant employees, thats fast food to casual to fine dining SMOKE.
Have you ever seen the "smoke out" behind your favorite restaurant or next to its dumpster. Go out this weekend and and observe if you see any employees taking a smoke break outside.
If the precedent to be set is looking after employees health well we have quite a few other areas more important than smoking; ie HACCP, OSHA standards not enforced, workers compensation from employers, etc..
This has very little to do with employees and more to do with rhetoric. If we don't want smoking its because of our own comfort level and view we have taken on second hand smoke (which by the way has more of a debate by researchers than climate change if you want to know the truth) and its ramifications to our health.
I for one wouldn't mind seeing a ban but lets be honest about how we get there. I would prefer a public referendum on the issue myself, that way localities could determine their own course but it will never happen.

Because it's such a safe Democratic area, I'm sure there would be minimal political fallout if Arlington were to enact a smoking ban.  But don't let your enthusiasm get the better of you when thinking about extending it to the rest of the state.  We just won a US Senate seat with a populist candidate with a libertarian aura.  Peeling just enough libertarians away from the Republican side was one of the ways that seat was won.  The populist (and libertarian) message is what is getting Democrats a look downstate.

At the state level, anti-smoking is much like gun control.  Start pushing what they call 'nanny state policies' now and whatever we gained with the Webb election will be lost.  And quick.  The Heritage 'too much government' frame is powerful and very much alive.  You need to convince the vast majority of distrusting Virginians that government can do good things for them before you can get something like this by them.  It may take the second coming of the New Deal; the anti-government sentiment is that ingrained.

65% of Virginians want a smoking ban in bars & restaurants.  So you think the "populist message" would be to back the position that just 32% of Virginians support?
http://www.wdbj7.com...

First off, I'm not a concern troll.  So don't dismiss what I'm saying because I don't agree.

I wasn't aware of that poll but the sample seems kind of small.  But let's assume it's accurate.

What I'm saying is this is a hot issue with smokers and small business owners.  That's probably what makes up the 32% opposed in the poll.  You push this too hard in conservative parts of the state and you piss most of that 32% off very badly.  Within the 65% majority, there is a small committed core of health advocates, but for the most part, the issue isn't enough on its own to swing the rest of the majority to vote one way or the other.

In the 32%, it is.  A smoking ban represents the government messing with their lifestyle or worse, messing with their livelihood.  You can preach health statistics to that crowd until you're (smoke) blue in the face.  A smoking ban will make committed enemies out of them.  Every single one.

Furthermore, I'm saying that our new Senator peeled off a larger portion of that 32% to vote for him than any Democrat has in a long time.  Make a smoking ban a Democratic issue, the folks in the 32% don't make that mistake again.

You might think the 65% pro-ban respondents are going to be enough to insulate you against that negativity, but I'm saying your pro-ban support is soft - the ban isn't going to make people who support it any more or less inclined to vote Democratic.  The anti-ban support, while smaller, is entrenched and they will blame any ban on Democrats.  Tread lightly.

against known, serious health risks.  By the way, for some interesting poll results, see:

*here (77% of Virginians say YES, ban smoking, "in public and private workplaces, including restaurants without enclosed areas for smokers")

*An older poll, from 2005, indicated that "Fifty-nine percent of the Virginia residents who were polled said they would support a statewide law prohibiting smoking in most public places, including restaurants and bars."

*A poll from early April 2007 indicated that 65% of Virginians would "want to see smoking banned from restaurants in Virginia."

Bottom line: a strong majority of Virginians, ranging from 59% to 77%, want smoking banned in restaurants.  Sounds pretty populist to me!

Actually, that *is* the definition of nanny state - to protect adults from their own mistakes (that arguably they should be solely responsible for) :)

Look, I'm actually not opposed to a smoking ban.  It's just to me, your enthusiasm and optimism seem a little reckless, that's all.  It'll work just fine politically in Alexandria and Arlington, but it's a danger to retaining our recent gains in redder parts of the state.

I said 'what they call a nanny state' because it is what opponents say about a smoking ban all the time.  I've heard the argument over and over and I'm sure you have too.  And it resonates in exactly those areas I'm talking about.  You don't have to convince me a smoking ban is a good idea from a public health perspective.  You do have to convince me it's not politically dangerous right now.  And for reasons outlined below, your polls don't convince me.

BTW, the first poll link is broken.

As far as being "politically dangerous," I guess you'd better tell all these cities, counties and states:

ALASKA  2002: Anchorage banned smoking in most workplaces workplaces (restaurants, bowling alleys and pool halls, but not bars).
ARIZONA  The State passed a fairly comprehensive ban on smoking in public places, to take effect May 2007. Flagstaff banned smoking in restaurants, bars and nightclubs in 2004. Tempe and Guadalupe banned smoking in most public places in May 2002. Includes restaurants, bars, bowling alleys. Tucson and Mesa ban smoking in most restaurants. Sedona passed a ban in January '06 to take effect March 10th.
ARKANSAS  April 2006: State bans smoking in most public places (some bars and small businesses and hotels are exempt). Feb. 2004: Fayetteville banned smoking in restaurants and bars.
CALIFORNIA  Smoking banned for some years in most public venues incl. bars, bowling alleys, clubs
COLORADO  Statewide smoking ban as of July 2006.
CONNECTICUT  In 2003 smoking was banned in the workplace, including restaurants and bars, but exempting casinos and private clubs. Legal challenges are in process.
DELAWARE  Smoking ban 11/27/2002 included all public buildings and workplaces including bars, restaurants, and casinos.
FLORIDA  July 2003: smoking banned in the workplace (including restaurants). Stand-alone bars and smoking rooms in hotels are exempt.
GEORGIA  May 2005: The State of Georgia banned smoking in public places with exemptions for restaurants and bars that do not serve minors, designated hotel rooms and workplaces with separately ventilated rooms for smokers
HAWAII  Statewide smoking ban to include all workplaces, restaurants, bars and non-Indian-owned casinos by November 16, 2006.
IDAHO  July 2004: Smoking is banned in restaurants, retail stores, sports venues and child care centers, schools and hospitals.
ILLINOIS  January 16, 2006, Chicago banned smoking in most public places, including restaurants. Bars and restaurants with bars are exempt until July 1, 2008.
Oct. 2006: Northbrook bans smoking in the workplace, including restaurants and bars.
May 2007: Bloomington and Normal - smoking ban in restaurants and bars January 2008.
INDIANA  Fort Wayne bans smoking in restaurants.
August 1, 2003: Bloomington: bans smoking in restaurants and public places. Starting 2005 it includes bars and private clubs.
KANSAS  July 2004: Lawrence bans smoking in the workplace (including restaurants).
KENTUCKY  Lexington has banned smoking in the workplace (including restaurants and bars).
MAINE  Smoking banned in restaurants and bars.
MARYLAND  Montgomery County restaurants allow smoking only at the bar; so if a restaurant has no bar, there is supposed to be no smoking. Shopping malls tend to be smokefree.
MASSACHUSETTS  Statewide ban on smoking in the workplace, including restaurants and bars.
MINNESOTA  January 2006: St. Paul passed a smoking ban on smoking in bars and restaurants. The ban goes into effect on March 31.
Duluth, Moose Lake, Cloquet and Olmsted County have all banned smoking in restaurants.
March 2005: Smoking ban in effect for bars, restaurants and bowling alleys in Hennepin county and cities of Minneapolis, Bloomington and Golden Valley.
A less restrictive ban for Ramsey County bars and restaurants (which contains St. Paul, MN) that generate less than 50% of their revenue from the sale of alcohol.
MISSOURI  July 2004: City of Arnold passed a law smoking in bars and restaurants with attached bars. It goes into effect November 1, 2004.
MISSISSIPPI  Starkville banned smoking in public places and workplaces including bars, starting May 21st 2006.
MONTANA  Bozeman bans smoking in restaurants and bars where there is no separation, Nov. 2002.
NEBRASKA  The capital city, Lincoln, banned smoking in the workplace (including bars and restaurants) as of 2005. Omaha smoking ban goes into effect October 2006.
NEVADA  The State passed a smoking ban in Nov. 2006, effective 11/17/06.
NEW JERSEY  Jan. 2006 - New Jersey banned smoking in indoor public places - includes bars and restaurants, exempts gambling areas of casinos.
NEW MEXICO  Albuquerque bans smoking in restaurants and bars which are not separate from restaurants.
NEW YORK  The state bans smoking in most businesses, including restaurants, bars, bowling alleys, dance clubs and pool halls. It is backed by fines. Indian casinos are exempted.
NORTH DAKOTA  Minot banned smoking in restaurants in 2002; Fargo in 2004. Bismarck in late 2005.
OHIO  Nov. 2006: The State passed a smoking ban in most public places, including restaurants and bars, effective Dec. 2006. The City of Columbus banned smoking in restaurants and bars as of Feb. 2005.
OKLAHOMA  March 2006: Smoking ban in effect for restaurants; exception for separately ventilated room.
OREGON  Corvallis bans smoking in restaurants and bars. Eugene has a workplace smoking ban which includes bars, restaurants and all types of venues.
PENNSYLVANIA Scranton effectively banned smoking in most bars and restaurants on December 11, 2006.
PUERTO RICO January 2006: banned smoking in the workplace, including bars and casinos.
RHODE ISLAND  Smoking banned in the workplace, including restaurants and bars, clubs and bowling alleys.
SOUTH DAKOTA  July 2002: smoking ban in most workplaces - bars & casinos exempted
TENNESSEE  Statewide smoking ban takes effect October 2007. All restaurants will be required to be smokefree indoors unless they limit access to people 21+ at all times (including restaurants with bars, chain and hotel restaurants).
TEXAS  A number of cities (Odessa, Austin, El Paso, Laredo, Lubbock, New Braunfels among others) ban smoking in restaurants or even all public places, some more strongly than others. As of March 1, 2003, Dallas banned smoking in restaurants, hotels, bowling alleys, and city-owned facilities. Bars are exempt and hotels can offer smoking rooms. April 2006: Beaumont passed a comprehensive ban to take effect August 2006.
UTAH  Smoking banned in most public places
VERMONT  Vermont has banned smoking in restaurants for some years but not bars.
Starting May 2004, the city of Burlington will ban smoking in bars.
WASHINGTON DC  Smoking banned in government buildings - except in Congress.
WASHINGTON STATE  December 2005: Passed a smoking ban which includes restaurants, bars, bowling alleys and non-tribal casinos.
WEST VIRGINIA  Cabell County banned smoking in restaurants, workplaces and even bingo halls. Appealed to state Supreme Court May 2002
WISCONSIN  Appleton and Shorewood Hills have 100% smoke-free workplace ordinances (bars and restaurants)
Madison passed a smoking ban in July 2005.
WYOMING  Laramie and Cheyenne have banned smoking in enclosed public places (including restaurants and bars).

Lots of "politically dangerous" people in America! :)

here's the source for this list.

The Answer is why not Fairfax too? I can't wait till this finally happens. Because make no mistake, it may not be this year or next year, but it's coming soon. Ah, to be able to breathe again. How exciting.

With Phillip Morris just announced moving the bulk of operations to Henrico County out of North Carolina and bringing lost of jobs with them we will see if there is politcal will for this to happen in the Richmond area...my gut says NO NO NO!!!