While emphasizing they are not anti-gun ownership, indeed many of their members do own guns, the MMMVA advocates for sensible gun legislation to keep weapons out of the hands of those that should not have them. Among the steps they advocate are: closure of the "gun show" loophole in the Brady Law, reinstate the federal ban on military-style assault weapons and on ammunition magazines of larger than 10 rounds, keeping guns out of places where children and families gather, increased enforcement of current gun laws, and the institution of product safety standards for guns.
To help citizens of Centreville accomplish this, Million Mom March of Northern Virginia had scheduled an informational talk on the status of current gun laws by Bob Ricker, former chief lobbyist for the NRA and now an advocate for sensible gun legislation.
Unfortunately even this is too much for the NRA and their supporters to handle. After Open Carry advocates showed up at a recent meeting on the same topic in Burke carrying their weapon in an obvious attempt at intimidation, they showed up tonight determined to film the proceedings apparently for the same purpose.
Being in a public place this certainly could not be prevented. However, it was requested that those filming sign a release promising not to use their footage in an improper way by editing statements out of context etc. One of those filming did sign the release, but a second person refused and the meeting had to be canceled to protect the integrity of the speakers' comments.
This is a typically cowardly tactic of those who take a position on which they have difficulty arguing on the merits. Obviously intimidated by the presence of Mr. Ricker, rather than take the opportunity to educate themselves and debate the merits of their views, they simply made sure no one would get to do so.
No matter how many childish tantrums these people throw, no matter how much they try to intimidate those who do not agree with them, no matter how often they try to shut down the voices of reason in our communities, they will lose in the end for one simple reason...they are on the wrong side of the issue.
I'm not anti-gun ownership but find a glorification of guns deplorable. A nationwide AP poll conducted the week of the Tech tragedy found that 52 percent answered yes to "do you feel ashamed this could happen in this country?" Just 52 percent? Any percentage less than 100 is disheartening! Have Americans just accepted mass shootings as normal?
The NRA won't rest until every man, woman, child, baby, pet and robot is required to be armed with AK-47 -- which they'd be allowed to carry everywhere -- and life turns into one big Clint Eastwood movie or WWII battle.
A pro-gun person challenged me with "there is no common sense gun control." Really? Well I think NICS, gun purchase limit laws, disqualifications for concealed carrier permits and cracking down on crooked gun stores are pretty common sense to me.
Kudos to MMM! Keep up the good work!
When you, as a reasonable gun owner, buy into this myth that there are gun safety groups with a "rigid dogma" who desire to ban/confiscate all guns you do all of us a great disservice. In my view, it's like when Fox compares the rampant corruption among Republicans with the one corrupt Democrat and declares flatly, "they all do it." And "they're all the same."
It is NOT the same. WE are NOT the same.
Please either point us to this "rigid dogma" anti-gun "lobby" who wants to "ban all handguns, period" or retract your statement.
I would argue that the citizens of these cities should have some say in how they choose to govern themselves. I would also say that the citizens of Northern Virginia should be able to keep guns out of libraries, rec centers, and police stations. Law Enforcement officers have repeatedly asked the state legislature to prohibit guns in police stations. They have been repeatedly rebuffed, even after Michael Kennedy walked into Sully Station and killed two of our finest officers in blue.
But we Northern Virginians, who get a paltry 19 cents back for every tax dollar we contribute to the state's treasury, are not allowed to decide these issues for ourselves. Instead it is left to a gun-lobby-stacked committee of mostly rural and Southern Virginian delegates and senators.
But that's another story. We're talking about the "anti-gun lobby" that wants to "ban all handguns, period." I appreciate you linking vpc.org, but I still don't see where they say that they want to "ban all handguns, period." I think you are drawing an erroneous conclusion.
My point remains: there is no comparison between the incredibly powerful and rich and scary gun lobby and the very un-powerful and very not-rich and nearly effete gun safety lobby. The vpc against the NRA? The guys who "have an office in the White House?" Are you kidding me?
Like I said, it is like comparing corruption amongst Republicans and Democrats. There is no comparison. You are doing exactly what the Fox people do when they say, "Clinton did it, too!" No, actually, he didn't.
VPC doesn't want to ban all handguns? Now you are the one kidding me. Look again. Their flagstaff publication is a book titled, "Every Handgun is Aimed At You." Their web site for the book is: http://www.banhandgu...
But, maybe you're right and I'm drawing an erroneous conclusion. Not.
Also, my original post posited that if we have laws that prevent those whom we as a society have deemed too dangerous to legally obtain firearms then there is no violation of the Second Amendment. So, stop confusing the discussion with emotional references to the Sully murders.
Finally, do you compare everyone with whom you disagree with Fox News? Now that's really intellectual honesty. Not.
Good-bye.
Here are some facts to counter YOUR mis-truths:
1. Bob Ricker was never any "former chief lobbyist for the NRA."
2. As a condition of holding public meetings in Fairfax County libraries, groups must allow filming. Period. How is filming a meeting "cowardly"?
3. "[I]ntimidated by the presence of Mr. Ricker?" Huh? You mean intimidated by the guy afraid to speak on camera?
4. Childish tantrums"? huh? Dude, check out the video where alleged Milliom Mom March "leaders" call citizen attendees "assholes" and allege that they have small penises! Good grief Elmer!
Video links - so far!:
The filming was clearly intended to intimidate the speakers and those in attendance, as was the presence of folks carrying guns at the Burke meeting...
What exactly are you afraid of? Why does a modest size group of citizens there to discuss the current state of gun laws in the U.S. send you into such a panic you feel the need to film them?
Therefore, it is simply not true that a person whose "intention was to use them in an honest straightforward manner" could then use the video in any meaningful way at all!
You wrote: "Why does a modest size group of citizens there to discuss the current state of gun laws in the U.S. send you into such a panic you feel the need to film them?"
My response: So why does the "modest size group of citizens there to discuss the current state of gun laws in the U.S." feel they must deploy cameras to film persons coming to the meeting? Who is doing the panicing Elmer?
You were clearly not there to learn anything, you were there to intimidate the speakers and the attendees...
Filming at public meetings is very common in VA, and legally protected at all public body meetings under FOIA, as well as at Home Owner Assoc. meetings by the VA Property Owners Act; and at libraries and other public venues.
I have come here to correct some of your incorrect information.
1: You claim Million Mom March (MMM from here on out) is not anti-gun. Yet, it is not "ok" for a lawful gun owner to open carry a firearm to a meeting in accordance with Virginia law? You said we made an "obvious attempt at intimidation" by carrying firearms at the MMM Burke meeting. Has it ever occurred to you some people open carry everywhere they go, and don't check their rights at the door because it may offend someone? We intentionally did not open carry at the Centreville meeting, out of respect for the MMM's because they mentioned that they thought we were trying to intimidate them at the last meeting.
2: How do you lump ALL gun owners together as a group as being NRA members? I am not a member of the NRA.
3: The release form restricted the use of my own recording. It did not allow me to use it for any other reason than "private use". There was no mention of "editing" or "splicing". I would have been happy to sign a release form that allowed me to use the video if I did not edit, splice, or take comments out of context. the full text of the release is:
"I agree that any photographic representations recorded at this meeting will be used solely by me for my private use and will not be copies, or made available to any other person or organization without the prior consent of the Million Mom March"
Link to release jpg here: http://opencarry.myw...
4: We tried to have an adult discussion (debate?) with MMM and Mr. Ricker in Burke. We were told to SHUT UP by the nice ladies of the MMM. Since we were not allowed to correct the baloney at the meeting I decided the next discussion would be videotaped to show the falsehoods they (MMM) were spreading. No need to chop or splice, just raw video of the meeting from start to finish.
5: Childish tantrums? Obviously your memory of the event is foggy. I tried to be as unobtrusive as possible. I did not speak to anyone unless they engaged me directly. You need to watch the video and see who throws a tantrum. I acted above reproach, the MMM participants used foul language in a library, made references to the size of my genitals, and one called me a f-ing moron.
6: This comment is not directed at Elmer, but to the rest of YOU here on Raising Kaine. Gun rights and ownership is not an us vs. them or Republican vs. Democrat issue. I am a Democrat myself thank you VERY much.
This all boils down to (in my opinion): The MMM were not afraid of me "splicing" or "editing" them to look stupid. They knew I was coming (I informed them beforehand) and they had a film crew of their own at the meeting to counter me. I can edit all I want, but they too have the video and could post it on-line to show I was an idiot who edited them "Michael Moore" style to make a hit piece. MMM simply did not want their agenda out on the web for all to see because some of their "facts" are NOT TRUE as I witnessed at the Burke meeting. If what MMM is pushing at these meetings is correct and true, what are they hiding from? Why cancel?
The Million Mom March of Northern Virginia
What: An informational meeting about U.S. and Virginia gun laws
Who: All concerned Virginia residents are invited
Are you confused by state and federal gun laws? How does our government keep guns out of the wrong hands? Can and should gun laws be strengthened? What can we do to prevent school shootings and other gun violence? Our guest speaker will be Bob Ricker, former chief lobbyist for the National Rifle Association who now advocates for sensible gun laws and is a recognized expert on federal and state regulations.
Monday, May 21, at 7 p.m.
Kings Park Library
9000 Burke Lake Rd.
Burke, VA 22015-1683
Monday, June 4, at 7 p.m.
Centreville Regional Library
14200 St. Germain Dr.
Centreville, VA 20121-2299
On May 31st, the following appeared in the Connection Newspaper in the Round Ups section:
Meeting on Gun Violence Prevention In response to the tragedy at Virginia Tech, the Northern Virginia Chapter of the Million Mom March will host a meeting on gun-violence prevention at the Centreville Regional Library on Monday, June 4 at 7 p.m. Bob Ricker, former chief lobbyist for the gun industry and nationally-recognized expert on state and federal firearm regulations, will be the featured speaker. The meeting is open to the public. Contact mmmnova@yahoo.com.
The purpose of the meeting changed from what was originally advertised, to something else altogether after the first meeting, in anticipation that someone might be at the second to videotape it that the MMM did not want doing so. After all, the VT tragedy happened on 4-16-07, plenty of time for the May 31st statement to have been made in the original press release announcing the two meetings, but that didn?t happen did it? Why?
My name is Chris Rohland, and I signed the waiver drafted on the spot to discourage people from video taping the event. Only one of the other two individuals at the meeting signed this document, one I believe is a MMM member or supporter, the other was the female videotaping the event on behalf of the Brady Center, I know, I asked her. I am not a direct supporter of the NRA as I am not a member, but I have on three occasions been to their range. I do visit www.opencarry.org in order to find information not found anywhere else. I also visit the Virginia Citizens Defense League, http://www.vcdl.org/... for the same reasons why I goto www.opencarry.org. I am no more a member with them (VCDL) than I am the NRA. Opencarry.org is a public form to exchange information on all sorts of topics, being there does not make me an NRA supporter or a VCDL supporter either, and it?s open to anyone.
I am not just an Open Carry advocate; I am a Concealed Carry advocate and an advocate of all Constitutional issues, the First and Second amendments are probably my favorite. I was extremely interested in hearing what Bob Ricker had to say, as well as what the MMM presenters were going to say, which is why I was there.
Videotaping a meeting such as this allows other people who are not able to attend, to see and hear what?s being discussed and presented, a very logical and reasonable purpose for videotaping the event. To say that the meeting ?had to be cancelled to protect the integrity of the speakers comments? is a bit of a stretch of the truth. No one forced the MMM people to not continue with their meeting, Bob Ricker could have just not spoken, or chosen to speak in an unofficial capacity, yet this was not the course selected. Is that because there is recorded contradiction as to whether or not he was there in a paid capacity, and had to get out of a tight spot? I think so, and I have proof. It?s publicly available here should you want the truth:
Here the video is edited, is spliced and diced to contain some additional information that was not included in the meeting footage to add very important context to what was going on at that meeting. Additionally the video is edited and spliced because YouTube has a file size restriction, and I felt it was very important to have higher quality video of this event than recommended. If you would like to contact me for a full version, unedited with just one splice due to my video camera shutting off automatically, I will be more than happy to provide it to you. Viewers should also note that the woman from the Brady Center in pink with the video camera and the other older gentlemen with a smaller hand held camera were not videotaping the entire meeting, before, during, or after. Makes it easier to distort the facts if you do that. I can be reached at knotageek@yahoo.com.
SNIP of MMM temper tantrum item:
*****************************************************
2. Million Mean-spirited Moms disrupt their own meeting because of
pro-gun video cameras!
*****************************************************
In the last few alerts, I have been saying how mean-spirited the
anti-gunners are. And they have just helped me make my point and I
have video to prove it!
The Northern Virginia Million Mom Marchers (all 5 or 6 of them), had
a public meeting in a public library earlier this week. Several gun
owners, including some VCDL members, showed up to hear what the
speakers were going to say.
All the gun owners were either carrying concealed or not carrying at
all, and two brought video cameras.
The MMM representative tried to get the gun owners to turn off their
cameras or sign the following agreement:
I agree that any photographic representations recorded at this
meeting will be used solely by me for my private use and will not
be copied, or made available to any other person or organization
without the prior consent of the Northern Virginia Million Mom
March."
A gun owner declined to sign the hastily written waiver.
That's where things got nasty.
The MMMs told the people attending the meeting [half of which were
gun owners ;-)] that the meeting was going to be cancelled because
the gun owners were INTIMIDATING the MMM's speakers with their video
cameras!!! (I couldn't make this stuff up if I wanted to.)
Sorry, MMMs, but you disrupted your own meeting.
The person who didn't sign the agreement was then disparaged by
saying he had a small penis (the comment is caught on the video
below).
Could you imagine if I shutdown a VCDL meeting because an anti-gunner
brought a video recorder and then disparaged her by commenting on the
spacious size of her rump? Egads.
What were they going to say that they didn't want to be held accountable for?
There was a uniformed Fairfax police officer in the room. Was he
providing security (!) or was he going to speak (!)?
Here are some quotes that show the kind of people that make up the MMMs:
"We have been threatened by them [gun owners] so many times. And
abused and badgered by them so many times that it is nothing to us."
[Threatened and abused? Oh, please. Laughed at, yes. - PVC]
"Can they tape with us standing in front of the camera? I mean
legally we can do that."
"We apologize for him [the gun owner who wouldn't sign the MMM's agreement]."
"He can't help it. His penis size is too small."
"Permission to call him an asshole?"
Here are the videos - rated H for hateful:
http://youtube.com/w...
http://youtube.com/w...
http://youtube.com/w...
and more:
http://www.youtube.c...
http://www.youtube.c...
http://www.youtube.c...
When someone writes something about your actions on a website, it is only natural to want to reply to what was written. This topic on your site was brought to my attention, so here I am. I am not here to cause problems or be a "troll". I used to read this blog every day during the Kaine campaign, and after that the Webb senate run. I have never felt the need to register as a user or contribute comments until this posting by "SaveElmer".
On another note: you may remember me from a previous email exchange we had one year ago. I wanted to record the audio of the Webb/Allen debate in west Virginia that was not being shown on TV or broadcast on radio (I found this highly un-American). My idea was to upload the audio to the web from the steps of the Supreme Court building (free public WiFi)so the uploading IP address (if investigated) would dead end at the place where liberty and First Amendment rights are upheld. (I found that ironic at the time)
Lastly, I owe you an apology. I tried to reply to the "uzi" comment from "mmc0412" while at work today and was not able to log-in for the comment. I then tried to request a password reminder (which I still have not received). Since I could not log-in from work, (and could not get a P/W reminder) I assumed you locked my account to end my discussion on this site. Since returning home to the PC I used to initially register with this site I once again have access. I made hay about this (being locked out) on oppencarry but have since corrected the matter there and stated I would be issuing you an apology for assuming you locked my account. I can only assume my work PC would not accept the log-in cookie from your site or some other technical matter.
If the so-called Million Mom March people (in reality The Brady Campaign to End Handgun Violence - see wikipedia) want to have a public meeting why are they intimidated by a video camera?
As a pro gun rights person I hope that people show up for all their propaganda meetings with cameras in hand. Who knew it was so easy to make them close up shop.
The behavior of the foul mouthed women was all too typical of the Milliom Moms activists. I do not understand how they expect to win anyone over - they are afraid to speak on camera but not afraid to make demeaning jokes about male organ size on camera? Very illogical yet consisntent with there illogical and dishonest crusade.
If the so-called Million Mom March people (in reality The Brady Campaign to End Handgun Violence - see wikipedia) want to have a public meeting why are they intimidated by a video camera?
As a pro gun rights person I hope that people show up for all their propaganda meetings with cameras in hand. Who knew it was so easy to make them close up shop.
The behavior of the foul mouthed women was all too typical of the Milliom Moms activists. I do not understand how they expect to win anyone over - they are afraid to speak on camera but not afraid to make demeaning jokes about male organ size on camera? Very illogical yet consisntent with there illogical and dishonest crusade.