Hate Group Coming to Disrupt VA Tech Funerals

By: Lowell
Published On: 4/18/2007 5:08:07 PM

As if this week hasn't been bad enough, we now have a hate group to deal with.  According to CBS News:

The families of those killed in the Virginia Tech massacre may not be able to grieve in peace at the funerals of those they lost. An anti-gay religious group known for protesting at the funerals of American soldiers killed in Iraq is planning on appearing at services for those killed on Monday as well.

The Topeka, Kan.-based Westboro Baptist Church (WBC), which is not affiliated with any national Baptist organization, announced plans to protest at victims' funerals only hours after 32 people were killed in the worst mass shooting in U.S. history. They also may protest at other events on the Virginia Tech campus.

The organization, founded and led by Fred Phelps, believes the United States has condemned itself to destruction by accepting homosexuality and other "sins of the flesh." Phelps' daughter, Shirley Phelps-Roper, said the Virginia Tech teachers and students who died on Monday brought their fate upon themselves by not being true Christians.

No, this is not a joke.  Believe it or not, this virulently racist, anti-Semitic, anti-Christian, anti-gay, anti-America group (yes, they're all those things, according to the Anti-Defamation League) is coming to Virginia to disrupt the funerals of students and teachers murdered at Virginia Tech.  If you don't like the idea of this, please sign this petition.

Thanks.


Comments



We can all agree on Fred Phelps (PM - 4/18/2007 5:15:21 PM)
I know people are following the VT story elsewhere, but the more recent news suggests the killer was a madman of epic proportions.  http://www.cnn.com/2...

As I read the CNN article, I thought about people being harassed who have difficulty getting the police and judicial system to take implied threats seriously.



There HAS to be a legal way to get around this (Silence Dogood - 4/18/2007 5:30:56 PM)
What if we filed to hold a parade in the streets surrounding the funeral?  Can we pre-emptively occupy any ground they might use for these ridiculous, disrespectful and hate-mongering demonstrations?

We don't actually have to show up, I don't think, but as long as the local government grants us a permit, they can't also grant a permit to use the same public lands, can they?



Here's one lawyer's opinion-- (PM - 4/18/2007 5:46:26 PM)
The author of the article, Eugene Volokh, teaches First Amendment law at UCLA School of Law, and runs "The Volokh Conspiracy," a weblog.

http://www.nationalr...

(I haven't studied First Amendment law in a while, but his seemed like a conventional analysis.)

His summation:

It turns out that the government (a) can ban loud picketing outside funerals, and (b) can probably ban all picketing immediately outside the funeral, but (c) must allow picketing or marching relatively near to funerals. How near is impossible to tell, but picketers can't be required to stay 300 feet or more away; they probably have to be allowed to march past the funeral, and perhaps even to picket, say, 100 or 200 feet away.

Why is this?  (And remember, one has to read this dispassionately -- or imagine you have just scheduled an anti-war protest designed to annoy Bush and you are fighting that court order.)

As gleaned from the writer's article:

The government generally can't picketing based on its content. The government also may not ban offensive picketing on the grounds that it will supposedly start fights. The government generally may not impose even content-neutral bans on all picketing or all picketing in certain places - for instance, all picketing around schools, all picketing around abortion clinics, and the like.  The Court has upheld some limits on abortion-clinic picketing, but those limits have usually been quite narrow. The government generally may impose content-neutral limits on noisy picketing, picketing that blocks traffic, and so on, but must do this through regulations of the number or volume level of picketers, and not through bans on picketing. The Court has recognized one place where picketing can be banned (if the ban is content-neutral): outside the targeted person's home. 

The author of the article suggests that as to state laws regulating funeral picketing: "it's a good bet that courts will find that the interest in protecting the privacy of the grieving at a funeral is at least as strong as the interest in protecting the privacy of people at their homes."

I don't know if Va. has enacted a funeral picketing law -- anyone know?



We (vets) have been fighting the whackos... (Detcord - 4/18/2007 5:55:42 PM)
...at military funerals and I hope someone does find a way to stop them.  They've never been challeneged in courts because no one wants to go after peaceful public expressions of personal beliefs...no matter how abhorrent.


Sick (Oakton Dem - 4/18/2007 5:41:00 PM)
This is so SICK. 


State code provisions (PM - 4/18/2007 6:00:48 PM)
Here's what I found online in the Virginia state code about picketing.  http://leg1.state.va...  The last section is directed at funerals, and it seems as long as there is no conduct, one can protest using words (or signs):

  § 18.2-404. Obstructing free passage of others.

Any person or persons who in any public place or on any private property open to the public unreasonably or unnecessarily obstructs the free passage of other persons to and from or within such place or property and who shall fail or refuse to cease such obstruction or move on when requested to do so by the owner or lessee or agent or employee of such owner or lessee or by a duly authorized law-enforcement officer shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit lawful picketing.

§ 18.2-419. Picketing or disrupting tranquility of home.

Any person who shall engage in picketing before or about the residence or dwelling place of any individual, or who shall assemble with another person or persons in a manner which disrupts or threatens to disrupt any individual's right to tranquility in his home, shall be guilty of a Class 3 misdemeanor. Each day on which a violation of this section occurs shall constitute a separate offense.

***

§ 40.1-53. Preventing persons from pursuing lawful vocations, etc.; illegal picketing; injunction.
No person shall singly or in concert with others interfere or attempt to interfere with another in the exercise of his right to work or to enter upon the performance of any lawful vocation by the use of force, threats of violence or intimidation, or by the use of insulting or threatening language directed toward such person, to induce or attempt to induce him to quit his employment or refrain from seeking employment.

No person shall engage in picketing by force or violence, or picket alone or in concert with others in such manner as to obstruct or interfere with free ingress or egress to and from any premises, or obstruct or interfere with free use of public streets, sidewalks or other public ways.
***

§ 18.2-415. Disorderly conduct in public places.
A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if, with the intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he:
A. In any street, highway, public building, or while in or on a public conveyance, or public place engages in conduct having a direct tendency to cause acts of violence by the person or persons at whom, individually, such conduct is directed; or
B. Willfully or being intoxicated, whether willfully or not, and whether such intoxication results from self-administered alcohol or other drug of whatever nature, disrupts any funeral, memorial service, or meeting of the governing body of any political subdivision of this Commonwealth or a division or agency thereof, or of any school, literary society or place of religious worship, if the disruption (i) prevents or interferes with the orderly conduct of the funeral, memorial service, or meeting or (ii) has a direct tendency to cause acts of violence by the person or persons at whom, individually, the disruption is directed; or
C. Willfully or while intoxicated, whether willfully or not, and whether such intoxication results from self-administered alcohol or other drug of whatever nature, disrupts the operation of any school or any activity conducted or sponsored by any school, if the disruption (i) prevents or interferes with the orderly conduct of the operation or activity or (ii) has a direct tendency to cause acts of violence by the person or persons at whom, individually, the disruption is directed.

  [NOTE THIS PROVISO, WHICH ALLOWS VERBAL COMMUNICATION AND SIGNS]:

However, the conduct prohibited under subdivision A, B or C of this section shall not be deemed to include the utterance or display of any words or to include conduct otherwise made punishable under this title.

The person in charge of any such building, place, conveyance, meeting, operation or activity may eject therefrom any person who violates any provision of this section, with the aid, if necessary, of any persons who may be called upon for such purpose.



Wow! (Detcord - 4/18/2007 6:22:32 PM)
I was surprised to see the word "annoyance" in there...that's so broad you could drive an oil tanker through it.


2006 18.2-406.1 :Unlawful assembly at solemn ceremonies; penalty. (hereinva - 4/18/2007 6:20:40 PM)
Picked this up from Richmond Sunlight:
from 2006 HB372

[http://www.richmonds...]

Be it enacted by the General Assembly of Virginia:

1.  That the Code of Virginia is amended by adding a section numbered 18.2-406.1 as follows:

§ 18.2-406.1. Unlawful assembly at solemn ceremonies; penalty.

Any person or persons who picket or assemble in protest at or near any solemn ceremony in a loud or unruly manner intended to disrupt the ceremony and the peace or order, such that the protest actually tends to inspire persons of ordinary courage with a well-grounded fear of serious and immediate breaches of public safety, peace, or order, is a participant in an unlawful assembly. Every person who participates in such an unlawful assembly is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.



They've gotten around this... (Detcord - 4/18/2007 6:24:03 PM)
...by simply not being "loud or unruly" and simply holding up their repgnant signs.


This isn't my idea, but it's a good one... (elevandoski - 4/18/2007 6:28:10 PM)
500 Christians should join their protest by going to the site, surround them, and sing "We Shall Overcome" and "Amazing Grace"-- ALL the verses.  I like that idea because (1) it shows them that real religion is about love, not hate, and (2) It's fighting "free speech" with free speech.

--VAB



Link (novamiddleman - 4/18/2007 6:54:15 PM)
Does this idea have a website or message board somewhere?


One group's answer... (Detcord - 4/18/2007 7:12:25 PM)
Motorcycles to block them...
http://www.freerepub...

A small victory (of sorts)for military only funerals...
http://www.tolerance...

...and the ACLU blocking most state attempts at limiting them.

Ugh!



PGRs (Alicia - 4/18/2007 7:51:03 PM)
they will block the signs as they stand elbow to elbow while they hold flags.  they do this at the military funerals I've been to at least - and they do a super job.


Thanks for this news (PM - 4/18/2007 8:06:54 PM)


Link (Alicia - 4/18/2007 9:01:51 PM)
http://www.patriotgu...


Why does it have to be "Christians"? (Glant - 4/19/2007 5:40:55 PM)
Why not 500 (or 5000) VIRGINIANS standing honor guard outside the funeral to pay their respects?


Because the group is... (Detcord - 4/19/2007 8:37:00 PM)
...perverts and distorts Chistian principles and beliefs to make these outrageous claims.  Having people of a similar faith who choose to reject their message is much stronger.  The objective, as I understand the proposal, is to keep the focus on minimizing their message and issue and NOT to give the yet another "anti-Christian" reason that would strengthen them.  A secular group would only be portrayed as attacking their beliefs, not their message.


good catch (PM - 4/18/2007 7:14:44 PM)
yes, it is the loud or unruly phrase that's the hangup; I think this is consistent with the other provisions in Chapter 18, and probably how a court would have interpreted them absent this law


Religious nuts (Quizzical - 4/18/2007 7:59:49 PM)
It would be extremely offensive and provocative for this group to try to capitalize on this tragedy to get attention.

Whether and how to respond should be thought through with some good judgment and experience. 

I don't presume to have that, but my two cents is that on the spectrum between going to battle stations and ignoring them, a response closer to the latter is the better choice.

I saw a handful from this group demonstrating outside of Arlington Nat. Cemetery on Memorial Day.  There weren't very many of them.  They were quiet but had outrageous signs and posters, mostly with the theme that God hates this or that group. 

There was a loud counter demonstration across the street, which only made the scene more bizarre and inappropriate in my opinion.

I'd be surprised if these nuts even have the numbers to go to all the funerals, plus Va Tech too.  My God, there are going to be a lot of funerals . . . .

Re: demonstrating on the Va Tech campus, I don't know what the law says on that, but I'd be shocked if the university does not have the power to stop it from happening on campus.  They might be allowed to take up a position just outside one of the gates, like at Arlington.  It'll probably be 5-8 people with crazy signs, and a few motorcycle cops to keep order.

 



Disorderly Conduct (The Old Town Observer - 4/18/2007 8:00:31 PM)
Many people have been locked up for disorderly conduct for a lot less than picketing a funeral. If their actions constitute probable cause for an imminent breech of the peace, they will get locked up. 


Please note (phriendlyjaime - 4/18/2007 8:16:52 PM)
that MANY people, even staunch Republicans, hate these freaks.  I watched a woman on Fox news (actually, the same woman who made Ann Coulter get up and LEAVE, so I assume she was fired for not being lock step with the Fox crazies) actually tell Phelps that she was ending the interview early bc he was such a crazy freak.

These people want attention, the media gives it to them, and I say, fine.  They are making themselves and their side look despicable.

The motorcycle group is great, btw.  They always trump these morons.



Real Religion is Not About Hate (AnonymousIsAWoman - 4/18/2007 10:26:15 PM)
Jaime is right, nobody sane respects this group regardless of party or religious affiliation.  And Eileen's suggestion is good - real Christians, and others of other religions, surrounding them with messages of love and support to show that real religion is not about hate.


There's a logical answer to this (presidentialman - 4/18/2007 11:11:26 PM)
Seems like even the Sean Hannity crowd doesn't want dirty diaper phelps. I got the answer to this problem of protesting funeral. The Phelps organization is protesting a bunch of students from Virginia Tech. VT having a pretty good football team that they do, can simply hide somewhere near where the Phelps guys are going to be and then tackle them. Now, you want a good ambush, so you let the Phelps people start doing their thing, and when they're good and deep into there routine, throw slurs and showing signs, that's when the Hokies show some defence. And the VT police can look the other way and say, you were kind of asking for it.


Phelps clan (tvhost - 4/19/2007 5:49:59 PM)
This lady and her followers are crazy.. I saw here in Danville Va a few years ago during a graduation ceremony .. Protesting gay rights or something.. They also came back for a funeral of a police officer later in Va after that.. I think that is why legislation was brought up but more needs to be done for these sick o's. I think in one area that is a motorcycle group that has been to funerals of fallen soldiers when the phelps clan shows up..I can't.. What really gets me is the children she leads with her.