This is what I am confident, Senator Webb will be fighting against. Jobs going overseas. We need to elect more people in the Virginia legislature, and Congressional delegation that understand that Virginia jobs come first.

That is a real American value.

I have confidence in Senator Webb - that he will act in the interests of American workers.  I expect that he will demand fairness in trade and labor laws.  That isn't to say that he will be overly-protectionist, but that he will be fair.

I fear that Allen and other pro-business (aka anti-labor) Republicans will stab us in the back one more time during the lame duck session. 

I also fear the intentions of Democrats allied with the tech lobby from California who are also more friendly towards IT corporations than IT labor. 

The tech lobby seems confident that Nancy Pelosi is going to give them exactly what they want.  I hope that confidence is misplaced.  They are already claiming victory so I am not so sure.

If Pelosi wants continued support, she needs to clarify her dedication to middle-class issues.  I think that Democrats should consider another leader unless she can dispell any doubts regarding labor issues and her ties to big business.

reasons should compel the federal government to encourage American software engineers. Given the continued fraying of our industrial base, we are rapidly becoming vulnerable to our enemies, or probable enemies, who are providing us with our defense hardware and software. Is this prudent? It may fit into the neocons determined "free market" theories, but it is undermining our national security and our vaunted military.

We seem to be putting too much emphasis on soft skills and discouraging engineers.  Should our country have another severe depression, we will emerge dependent on other countries for just about everything we use to produce domestically.  I wonder if the rest of the world will offer foreign aid and bail us out?

Doesn't sound good for our national security.  Empires fall, and in many cases they fall because of unrestrained greed and corruption.  I fear that history will repeat itself here in the USA.

So just what jobs ARE Americans supposed to do, when we talk about the gains from trade? I thought we were supposed to get rid of ALL those horrible low skilled jobs, and those low-skilled jobs were going to be replaced by the new service industry.

Oh wait, Americans don't want those jobs either. So, we gave them to Juan and Pedro.

The fact is, we can outsource some things, but the service quality makes a difference. If you get away from national security- which is a BIG factor- you have to consider that understanding the Western Method of business really matters. If they Chinese and Indians want to send their engineers to school, and develop their own products, fine. THAT'S competition, and brings the gains from trade.

This is entirely different, and a bunch of crap. Basically, we just have a bunch of CEOs looking for short term gains that line their OWN pockets, and are too lazy to work for their earnings.

This is ALL a bunch of lies. As always. But hey,why do you think the GOP loves to avoid the issues?

Even though I'm a flaming liberal, this is just one area where I have to disagree with the picture that's been painted.  It is very difficult to fill software engineering positions; even overseas or with H1B1 Visas.  If jobs are being shed like these stats claimed, I should be flooded with resumes of qualified people; instead I'm getting a trickle of junior level and unqualified candidates.  I don't know how these stats are caclucalted but something is seriously wrong with the way they are totalling them up. 
Also the pool of qualified engineers in China and India is almost tapped out.  Salaries are going up 30% a year and it is only a matter of time before they come into parity with the US salaries.  Even in China and India the schools only turn out a limited number of qualified candidates every year, and only a limited number of those folks actually make the grade and are successful at the job.  This pool of candidates is well below the demand.

First of all, I have researched this topic for several years now.  These stats are not bogus, are statistically accurate, and unless you have any evidence supporting a contradicting viewpoint I would be careful about such allegations. 

The numbers aren't 100% accurate (surveys never are) but they are accurate enough to demonstrate that we ARE NOT PRODUCING JOBS IN THE SOFTWARE OCCUPATION.

In fact, the ACM modified their report on globalization because of these statistics.  I have worked with the BLS analysts in the use of these statistics. 

Do you have any contradicting information?  The only contradicting information I can find has been manufactured by the IT industry and their lobbyists.  Independent research - such as the numbers you see here - indicate that job growth has been small at best, and in my oppinion flat.

I didn't pull these numbers out of thin air.  If you have issue with them, talk to the BLS.  I already have, and they are confident in their methodology.

When I post a position it is open an average of 4-5 months before we are able to fill it with a qualified canidate.  This despite paying market rates, and national recruiting.  I know many other software engineering managers and their experience is similiar.  We all sit around trying to figure out how to hire local talent, but it ain't available.  I guess it's who am I going to believe my lying eyes or the BLS stats.  Posting on the ACM job boards, and hte IEEE job boards doesn't exactly bring a flood of qualified resumes.

You have a 1000 foot view of this issue - which is specific to your region.  We are taking a 100,000 foot view based on national surveys.  Results may vary based upon the location you are in.

For example, some parts of the country have healthier job markets.  The south-east for for instance. 

No offense, but you should pay more attention to national trends than your own personal experience.  There are a number of factors than impact your specific circumstances - which I cannot begin to understand without more information. 

Finally, I often hear similar sentiments from anonymous sources all the time.  Would you care to actually tell us who you are, where these jobs are, and provide some links to online listings?  My guess is that people I associate with could help you find the talent you seek. 

I can't really continue to debate this issue with you or attempt to explain your circumstances unless you are able to provide substantive information.  You say that you are having a difficult time filling the positions.  You must have online job listings all over the place, right?

they use "headhunters" who simply grab anything they can find, and charge a fee for the number of people "interviewed." Yeah, I went through one of those placement groups. What a joke. I pulled my resume, I was so disgusted by the lady who interviewed me.

I find most of the job ads on company websites, and nowhere else. COmpanies I never knew existed. If theya re large, I never would hear back from them. I know that they don;t know how to do anything but check off boxes....

So I started doing searches through Chamber of Commerce listings, and checked the company out. Then I looked at their  career offerings, and picked through jobs. I usually was interviewed within a week, and immediately scheduled for a second one, which I did if I thought they had interviewed me well.

My impression basically is that business America complains, but don't actually do much to really get themselves out there. Those that do, were going to job fairs, but then saying- " We have no positions open at this time." Ok, so, now you are running people off, but complain?

The really good companies I think always manage to find the employees, and the rest complain that there aren't wondering hordes of MS candidates falling over their doorstep like millions of wandering gypsies.

 

I am planning a startup for late next year - providing software services to the government.  I have managed to secure some funding so I am very excited about this.

I don't think I will have a problem finding good people.  They may not come from fortune 500 company and Ivy league schools - because lets face it, people at fortune 500's  from Stanford don't want to work for a startup.  And quite frankly, most people at fortune 500s probably don't have what it takes to work at a startup because the mindset is so different.

I work for a fortune 500/big 4 and it will be very tough for me to break away because I like my job.  But there is this entrepreneur in me.

I digress.  The bottom line is that this is a capitalistic economy.  My choices are to lure people away with big dollar figures and perks - which my business model probably won't sustain - or to take good people and risks on junior people with little or no proven experience beyond college.  I'll take raw unrefined ambition and convert that into a great team. 

The bottom line is that you make the best of what you have.  There is no "perfect" candidate.  There are bad candidates, ok candidates, good candidates, and great ones.  I'll aim for good and try to make great people.  Even as a startup, I plan on investing $$$ into their training - because knowledge in the service industry is gold. 

I have faith in American workers, their ambition, and their desire to be the best software engineers around the world.  Period.

Congrats on your decision to take a chance on putting together your own business.  I've been self-employed for over 20 years, although only by myself and not employing others.  Also, my business plan consisted mostly of finding cheap space and hanging out my shingle.  Probably could have used more planning there, but I digress.  Maybe you and Caesonia should talk.  I hope you have great success.

Unfortunately, small business is like the canary in the mine when it comes to changes in the economy. 

I am always interested in talking with people interested in business.  I wish small businesses would have a louder voice.  Most are members of the Chamber of Commerce, but the Chamber is out there lobbying and making deals for big business and global business.

I think the two business groups (large multinational corporations and small American business) should diverge when it comes to associating with business groups like the Chamber.  Their interests just aren't the same any more.  Small business employs more workers than big business and is the powerhouse for our country, however the voices of small business are muted. 

When is the last you watched an interview on TV with a group representing American small businesses?  And on the other hand, when is the last time you watched someone from big business, the chamber of commerce, or other big business interest groups?  You can flip channels if you have cable television, and my guess is you can see the influence of big business in a matter of minutes.  I don't know if you can easily find reporting on small business aside from your local paper.

I have never worked for a Fortune 500, and I probably never will. I have usually worked for smaller companies, knowing that I might sometimes make a little less initially, but the chance to take leadership positions, and to develop other skills would be more likely from the get go.

I started my own business back in the 90's, landscaping, and if I hadn't had a different focus,it would be huge right now. I sold everything off when I saw a doubt coming, but that was just moving on to something else. I started offering jobs by paying double the prevailing wage, and then picked through. FAR more profitable than hiring cheap, often non-english speaking employees, many of whom are illiterate in their own language. My "Americans" weren't lazy, and the cost for broken equipment, stealing, and so so customer relations was so minimal as a result. 

I'de be glad to programm for you, and your start-up. Seriously. I am a free lancer right now. I also know some people who might be glad to as well.  I think what you are doing is fabulous, and yeah small business IS under assault in the US, as Corp America tries to eliminate competiton through massive tax breaks no one else gets.

Not ramping up until next fall, but I have some small side projects already.  I may be able to send you some work.  Email is floridacoder_AT_gmail.com.

and not the little guy.  I remember they came around to ask me to join up and I started asking questions about their positions on various things.  Talk about a bunch of right wing Republican hacks.  I'm a sole practitioner who needs inexpensive health insurance more than anything else.  All this guy wanted to talk about was government "interference" with hiring decisions (read immigration enforcement) and tax "relief" for large corporations.  He kept going on about the lousy "liberals".  Then he got upset when I turned him down.  There was nothing that guy said to me that made me think he and his organization would promote my interests as a small business owner. 

I think they should band together and send a message to the Chamber of Commerce. 

My father-inlaw is the president of what amounts to the Chamber of Commerce in his locality in Japan.  When I look at how they do business - local businesses still have a voice.  He runs/has ownership of mid-sized businesses (not global/national) but they still have a voice.  Smaller businesses still have a seat at the table.  Labor interests have a seat at the table.

They are becoming more westernized, but I think cool heads will prevail.  It saddens me that in the United States all seats are reserved for big business.  Labor and small/mid sized American businesses be damned.

So.  Raise the salary.

Another kvetch that is about as much of a myth as always. I have no idea what you are compensating, but I watch university temps offer 13/hr to beginning programmers....And thats peanuts.

More and more frequently I see resume readers simply going for checked off boxes, and not really looking at the employee underneath, the extras. So they miss all those super dynamic out of the box thinkers who don't easily fit into easy categories. I also know that often the interviewers are so out of touch with what they are hiring, or HR hasn't even gotten itself together. I have been in interviews where they didn't even know what they had asked for in the ad, much less read my resume!

After some of what I went through, I became convinced that most businesses aren't interested in hiring "good people." They are interested in hiring the basic autamotons, paying them as little as possible who make them feel superior, and then complaining about how they can't get good people. Those who are real hustlers are not interested in going into massive debt to earn 35k a year for some IT industry that will write out their job in 2 years. Who in the heck wants to give a lot of personal involvement and energy to have nothing to show for it in 24 months?  Its " oh, I want someone with 5 years of stable work experience for a junior developing position for a temp contract to perm position, benefits after 1 year....."

Well, that not even OFFERING a stable position.

All thats happened is that the labour market is far less connected with the employers, and thats the way most employers wanted it for 'downsizing.' They forgot that what gains come from hiring and promoting from within.

Finding good employees is an investment, and you have to demonstrate that you WANT good employees. And you also have to consider that most good employees can't wait 5 months for you to decide what you want either. If you trying to ask me me about money in the first interview, then as far as I am concerned, you had  better be ready to start talking about start dates and packages.....If you can't, then you are jerking me around- you know exactly what your salary range is, so, quid pro quo.

Do I sound like a jerk? Nope. Just saying how the business world frequently makes mistakes and loses good employment prospects, from messy HR people to bad interviewers, but LOVE to blame the labor force.

" Oh, we can;t get GOOD people.." No, you simply didn't know what you were looking at.

There ARE good companies out there, few as they are today, and super savvy employees are interviewing too....

I think you should look towards places like Charlottesville, with very big well educated people, many of whom I know would gladly relocate to work for a good company.

Hire the junior people and train them.

WHo would have thought?

Sheesh.

I have to go digging to find jobs, and they post in some very limited places and can;t find anything. I never found any job by looking on open posting boards.

Did it ever occur to US Business that while they were busy touting a "dynamic" economy in which workers would have 6 different careers, that it meant that each worker would have less explicite experience in each field?

Maybe if the IT industry hadn't been so busy "outsourcing" starting in the late 90's, and removing half a million jobs in the early 00's, there would BE more experienced software engineers. After all, all those junior developers had to do SOMETHING, right? But it wasn't developing software, so they did something else. So now you've killed half the herd, but cry because you are hungry?

People ONLY get experience by having a job that GIVES them experience.

Companies want to hire skilled labor on a moments notice, and dump them the minute it might cut slightly into their profit margin. Skilled labor is expensive in a developed sophisticated economy. It always has been. Good management understands how to bring together a team, and develop it to create a truly spectacular product.

That's econ 101, as I learned it, and from what I see, its still true today.

And by the way, half of those Chinese and Indian Engineers? They lie about their experience, and don't even do their own work in school. One of the largest cheating scams ever was uncovered last year when is was discovered that a bunch of Chinese students were basically handing each other the same research paper, given to them from ....China.... I have an inlaw who is a senior manager in a fortune 500, and will NEVER hire another HB-1 again, because they LIED on their resumes, and were LESS productive/hr than any American. Sure, US salaries were higher, but when he looked at what was done on an hourly basis, the US employee beat their socks off. His department has the shortest work week, and he has people falling over themselves to get transferred to him.

He recruits all the time successfully,but then he understands economics and the value of unit training.

is that there is no real standard in India or China comparable to the educational standards in this country.  By this I mean that people are graduated from schools there and called engineers, but that doesn't mean that they've had comparable training to what an engineer's degree means in this country. 
A few months ago a study came out which talked about this problem, although I cannot remember the details at this time.  I remember it was covered extensively in a story on NPR.  There is little regulation in either country over the claims of educational institutions.  Americans appear to be unaware of this and think that if an applicant says he has, for instance, a degree in Software Engineering, they just assume the educational requirements were the same.

This has been a big problem in U.S. IT: everyone wants to snatch the senior programmers and engineers, but no one seems to eager to train the junior level workers.

This is exactly why less people are studying CS. Because even though you go through a program and put yourself in debt, you cannot get a job because you lack the 5+ years of experience that everyone desires. With the cost of education today, most students are saying, 'no thanks,' and getting business degrees instead.