I totally missed this.

I don't understand what these people expect from poor parents. 

If they can not afford child care- they have two options.  They can quit their job, and live on welfare so they can watch the kids, OR they can tell their kids to stay home alone and "keep the door locked" and hope they don't have an emergency without an adult around all day.

Isn't it a better option to have the government help them with child care so they can continue to work and stay off welfare?

The 50 Republicans who voted to do this should be ashamed.  Dave Marsden should just go join them if he believes this crap.

Please, please tell me that you aren't digging up that Reagan-ear fantasy about people on welfare buying luxury crap.  Because it sure sounds like you are.

And if that is what you're saying, how many people on welafre do you know who have cell phones and X-boxes?  Cause I sure don't know any.

I certainly can't see a reason to defend or how to justify Marsden about the subsidized care issue, but maybe there were other parts of the grouped proposals that caused him to vote against it. 

Although I also find that a bit suspect because they came from Gov. Kaine.

And after all the crap put out by the Republicans during this entire budget effort its unbelievable that any Democrat could vote with them.  Perhaps Dave is tired and just wants to go home. 

 

it looks like the answer just may be YES.

...but it's not like this would have passed even with Marsden voting with the rest of the Democrats.  It just would have been 37-50.

Not that that excuses the vote, just saying.

And I'll still take him over Michael Golden.  Sometimes it's more about who you run against than who you are.

I think we can all agree that Marsden makes a better delegate than Golden would have.

And remember, he still votes for Democratic leadership.

The question isn't who he ran against in the last election, the question is- Do we consider this vote an acceptable way to represent the people of the 41st District?

I say No.

The problem with having a Democrat vote this way comes in the next election.  Michael Golden voting with Republicans gives them no cover.  Dave Marsden does.

For example- when Greg Werkheiser says "Delegate Albo made a motion to throw 1,800 kids on state funded child care onto the street", Albo will say "Delegate Marsden, a Democrat from the district next door voted with me on this because ______ (insert shitty reason here).  That was a bipartisan vote."

Delegate Joannou from District 79 from the Norfolk area also voted Nay.  I'd really like to know a little bit more about the situation before we crucify Dave on this vote.

And he is the Democrat who the Speaker places on the budget conference- so he always votes with Republicans on budget issues to keep that seat.

Joannou's district does include a part of Norfolk, but the majority falls within Portsmouth.

Golden would have been worse.  No amount of your seething hatred of Marsden really gets around that fact.  Hell, that guy was in bed with Mike Farris.  Screw him and the fundie book-banning horse he rode in on.

And for the record, I don't like Marsden's vote.  But I'll take a 50% Democrat over a 100% Republican.

You are too young to be stuck in the past.  Golden lost.  This isn't about Golden vs. Marsden, it is about 1,800 kids put out on the street from their day care programs.  The person he ran against last year does not excuse what these kids are going through.

It was simply a mistake. Dave put in a "gray sheet," which is the official way one notes an error, immediately. It was a long, complicated series of votes and he pushed the wrong button. He has done what he can to fix it.

Thanks for clearing that up.

That is certainly a relief.

I've never heard of it before, especially on such an important vote.

Are actually not that uncommon. The "gray sheet" corrections appear in the official Journal, but not online. It's something we have tried to get fixed in this age of technology, but so far haven't been able to do. It would avoid a lot of stories like, well, this one.

Pay attention to what button is being pushed!

I thought that vote looked suspicious.

This is what the Democrats have to stop doing.  We need to believe converts when they come to us instead of checking them with a fine-ttoth comb and always assuming the worst.

I'd like to think that it is possible to defect from right to left and mean it.

But that doesn't mean we should stop questioning.

Ease up on Dave, everyone.  I've seen legislators on both sides of the aisle with years of experience accidentally press the wrong button and submit grey sheets.  It happens.  Regardless of what it indicates online, the official, printed journal of the House reflects that Dave Marsden voted FOR the Governor's amendments, just like the rest of us.

Josh or Lowell, you should be fair to Dave and update your initial post now that you know what really happened.  If you're as incensed as I am by the Republican majority cutting day care for 1,900 poor Fairfax County children, then let's direct our energy where it belongs: getting to 51 and 21, not needlessly attacking a good, hardworking Democrat.

Thanks for your comment,

I agree that this diary should be updated to reflect this new information.

Glad it was just a simple clerical error, scared me for a second.

Josh, you have been woken up from your bad dream, it wasn't real.

It wasn't a clerical error by the clerk, it was an error by the Delegate who pushed the wrong button.

A simple goofball mistake (by Dave).  I did not try to blame the GA clerk, as it is clearly Dave pressing the button.

But Dave never had ANY intention of voting Nay, filed a Gray Sheet, and so on.  And that's what really matters, his intention, and the fact that the official Journal has him voting in the affirmative.

I know you got really excited about this for a few hours Ben, but let it go, the story is over.

:) 

With all due respect of course...

It is wonderful to hear that this was a mistake which has been corrected, and I am glad to see that an update has been provided to go with the diary.  It is important to not only help us understand the reason for the vote, the frequency of the mistake that was made in regards to previous "bad button pushes", and the fact that this is not an error in which we can again attack a clerical bureaucrat or a cog in the machine.  However, while the story may be over for now, and I agree that we should be attacking the Republican majority for letting this plan go to the garbage, I am glad that Josh picked up on the story.  It helped us get to the bottom of the issue.  And frankly, I think Ben certainly has the right to question as much as the rest of us, regardless of whatever past crap seemingly has to do with the situation at hand.

Eaglin's right; an attack on each other is useless, the real fight is with the Virginia Republicans.

I'm just glad he made the mistake on a vote where he didn't make a difference.

The story is over.

Thanks to everyone for working through this with us, and thanks to David Englin and Kris Amundson for working to set the record stright.

I'll step up on a soapbox for a brief second, since apparently there are some elected officials who read this.  We volunteers, researchers, activists and leaders you know as the Netroots, work hard to get you elected.  We want you in place to represent us, but our job doesn't stop there.  It's our job to make sure you represent us well.  At Raising Kaine, we are working towards and Enduring Progressive Majority in the Commonwealth of Virginia.  Our part of that is twofold: Electoral Victory and Legislative Accountability.  Thanks for all the hard work that you do, and please don't ever forget, we're working hard too.

Josh

!

Probably more than any other elected officials around, Kris and I appreciate the potential for BloggerWorld to serve as an incomparable medium for the exchange of ideas, opinions, and information. I'm certain that more words have been written about the 2006 session(s) of the General Assembly than about any other since Jamestown -- and that's a good thing. We appreciate the interest, and we accept the accountability.

[Insert shameless plug:] We're launching a new blog this week -- "7-West." Among other things, we'll have occasional "Richmond Explainer" posts that we hope will help to shed light on some of the murkier aspects of the legislative process Down There.

But . . . here's an Accountability Moment going back the other way.

Before hitting the "Send" button on a post about the legislative process that maligns a guy who's been a standup supporter of our shared values, would it kill you to take a second to double-check?  (In this instance, that would have involved dropping an e-mail to the little legislator who wrote the post that started this great war -- me.) I know, I know -- the Marsden post now leads with an update that lays out the facts that Kris and Dave Englin provided: but the Correction Electrons never quite catch up. And, if it's worth saying at noon, it's just as good at 2 pm.

rbrink@erols.com.  Except for occasional naps, We Never Close.

I'm outraged by this suggestion.  Bob- anytime bloggers comment on one of the THOUSANDS of recorded votes in the House of Delegates- they are supposed to check with you first?

I'm done being nice about this story.  When Josh wrote it- it was clear it was either an attack on Democratic values- or a callous lack of attention to the important issue at hand.

Just because it turned out to be the latter (and this is giving you and David and Kris a BIG benefit of the doubt) doesn't mean Josh needs to do anything different.

Josh, good work buddy.  These people may think it is the House of Lords, but it is the House of Delegates, and you are going your patriotic duty keeping them honest. 

Josh, thank you for playing your role in our democracy.  Happy 4th of July.

"As far as I can tell, Marsden is the only Democrat to break ranks and vote with the Republicans.

So what was at stake?"

You guys may not want him, but please don't foist him off on us Republicans.

I'm not in Colorado, You're not in Albuquerque. Why do all the posts on here show with a Mountain Standard Time Timestamp?

are hosted in the mountain time zone.  We can ask about a change but that may not be easy because Soapblox hosts a number of Democratic/Progessive sites located throughout the country.

This diary was a low blow against Dave Marsden and it was inaccurate.

Why is it OK to be suspicious and question the motives of Republican-turned-Democrat Dave Marsden when it is taboo here on RK to question anything about Republican-turned-Democrat Jim Webb?

There is some hypocrisy at work here.

RK should apologize to Marsden for this nasty diary that has now filtered into other blogs.

And RK should make Webb meet the same standards as it expects from Marsden and other former Republicans.

I went forward with the accurate information I had. I asked for clarification.  I got it.  I posted it.

End of story. 

There was factual evidence for EVERY assertion that I posted and I asked for it to be refuted.

Democracy requires checks and requires confirmation.  Our REPRESENTATIVES are elected to work for us.  There's nothing wrong with questioning their actions.  It's called Democracy. 

Thomas Paine understood that.  Perhaps you could chose a better pseudonym.  You do yours a disservice.

I just wanted to sum up some thoughts on this episode.

It was great to see Delegates Amundson and Englin come to Dave Marsden's defense.  To me this is important for two reasons.

1. The Democratic Caucus is reading Raising Kaine and is aware of what our community is saying.

2. The Democratic Caucus down in Richmond is UNITED and communicating with each other.

We are a united Democratic Party indeed.