I have mixed feelings.  There is no doubt that it has a certain amount of panache, and the information contained is accurate.

But I also can anticipate lots of ways in which this can be used against Jim.  I really don't want to enumerate them in a public blog because I don't want to give ideas to the other side.

I hope this is NOT the first piece of literature people receive in the mail from the Webb campaign.

Here it is: http://notlarrysabato.typepad.com/doh/files/miller_flyer_color.pdf

Here's how I'd compare it with Miller's piece linking Webb with sundry Republicans:

1)  Harris's piece has no picture of Miller himself and no information on him -- comes across very sneaky and slimy.  Jim's piece has a cartoon of him and lots of info on him.

2)  Jim's piece has humor -- Harris's has none. 

3) Harris's piece could backfire by subtly telling Dems that Webb is more electable in a red state. 

4) Jim's piece is very topical, featuring direct Miller quotes on an critical issue, outsourcing.  Harris's piece is about supporting a president who left office almost 20 years ago. 

The only downside of Jim's piece, I guess, is that it's negative and acknowledges Harris's slimy existence.  But Jim didn't start this fight, and I'd rather see him engage in it than back away.

received by non-committed voters.  I acknowledge the humor.  I know humor is what got Paul Wellstone elected.  And I have absolutely no problem about hitting back - HARD - the other guy. 

I will not voice in detail in a public forum my concerns about how this may be played against Webb.  My concerns are not imaginery. 

You have to look at this not as a partisan, glad that your guy is hitting back.  You have to consider how it might be played in the press, how it might strike an uncommitted voter who has had as yet no contact from the Webb campaign. 

I do not view it quite as direly as another poster does, but I have my concerns.

I am sure you have some contacts or can get them easily.  Lowell could help.  Let them know your ideas asap.  The fliers aren't in mailboxes yet.

anywhere, just being handed out at bluegrass festivals, etc., mainly in SWVA.  I believe there's a serious, professional, glossy for mailboxes that is being sent out. 

How's the IT community there?  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think there was much IT work down that way. 

Seems that going after Miller's IT outsourcing would play better in the NOVA area where there is a strong concentration of IT workers. 

Although the base message - job outsourcing by rich guys - should work anywhere.  Hopefully that'll come through.

Because that was my main concern.  This flier, accompanined by a more professional one, is fine.  It ALONE is what bugs me.

But, hey...if its for handout purposes, then cool. 

And really, what the hell do I know anyway?  :)

I don't want to be a negative Nancy: you all know that I am totally psyched about Jim Webb, and he has my full support.  Miller has negative support from me at this point.  But I agree with everything teacherken has said, and I share his concerns.  I am not sure what his exact concerns are (and I feel that they should not be publicized either) but I get the same kind of "um...really?  I don't know..." feeling in my stomach.  I also agree that yes, the flyer is unique, it's a cartoon, it's different...and hey!  Maybe that's what we need: something new.

BUT...I am not thrilled with it, I'll be honest.  It is negative, and yes; Miller started it.  But is this what people are thinking after they have read over and over again about how Webb is an evil Republican?  I just think a more positive message addressing that very issue and how Webb being a former Rep. may be a good thing that should be embraced would be more beneficial.

Ok... Miller puts out serious attacks on Webb and we do cartoons, Great! Knockout Punch?, phaaa!

and have not yet decided for whom to vote, even though you are leaning towards Webb.  You have received multiple professional looking (even if untruthful) mailings from Miller, and to date nothing from Webb.  Then you receive this. 

I don't have a big problem with it as part of the mix, particularly as it provides cites for its claims  -- and it is a nice touch to use the cites to link Miller with the Ancieb Regime. 

But if this is the first piece that such voters as I describe see, it may be counterproductive.

One other point  -- the portrayal of Jim is going to remind some people of certain kinds of propaganda posters with which one does not wish our candidate associated.

But hey, they don't ask me what I think except on education, even though I teach government and politics (albeit to high schoolers) and have a pretty good knowledge of campaigns and tactics.

If it is the first piece received, I hope that Jim signed off on it before it went out.

i was trying to be cute. I think that this piece is absolutly counter-productive especially considering the Miller pieces which are amazing!

apparently, giving an ardent Webb supporter and volunteer extraordinaire a compliment is UNPRODUCTIVE. 

Don't be jealous, Ben.

Remember, you are the one that told me below to "have some fun."

:)

will not be mailed out.

I don't know what you're talking about.  It's fun and different.  I just don't think it will get thrown in the trash like other flyers because of the cartoon.

(and no I had nothing to do with it, just my impression).

I think I've made it known that I will support whoever wins after the primary.  This is still true, but if this is the kind of stuff that the Webb campaign is going if they win it might be a lost cause.

Of course, this piece is not enough by itself.  What is really needed to respond to Harris's mudslinging charges is for Jim write an Op-Ed in a prominent place like the Post telling -- with some passion -- why he left the Republican party and why he jumped into this race. 

Jim, come on and use your writing talents to define yourself to the public -- don't pull a Kerry and let the swift-boaters define you!!

I doubt he reads this blog very often.

Respond to the 'real Democrat' issue while simultaneously putting Allen on his heals... Brilliant!

Think about all of the flyers you get during election season.
I don't know about you, but I have a PO BOX and what happens is as I get my mail, there is a table, I sort. Each one goes into the recycling bin that is at the post office.  I don't look at em, they are all boring, they all say boring things, useless phrases,often they don't even have any text, same ole font, same boring colors and so on.

ok, I'm at the post office, I see this.  It's a cartoon...do I think it's a political flyer?  nope.  Because of that I actually read it.  It's "woah", my eyebrows raise up, message received?  Absolutely.  Would I consider saving it and showing it to my family?  Yup, it's a wild ad, I'd say "honey have you seen this?"  Why, because it's unique.

It's that 85% of the battle right there? 

And hey, I'm a conservative type in terms of style, like formal studies, admire professionalism and over 40...so I just don't see what you are reacting to.

This flier is unique.  We get plenty of political fliers but very few like this.  It's short enough so people will read the cartoon yet has enough info that they have something useful to think about.

Knockout punch?  Not by itself.  But it will get more read than most political fliers.

and TurnVirginiaBlue should be hired as a consultant for these candidates afraid to fight back with some humor.

LET THEM EAT CAKE!

by rating James Martin's comments with a zero.  He has done yeoman's work on behalf of the Webb campaign,  and has every right to express his concerns.

For what it is worth, humor works best when there is a self-deprecating aspect to it.  That's one thing not present in the piece in question.

did someone say money???

I could use some money....hmmm....where do I buy one of those fraudulent diplomas being used extensively, especially with the NIV and student Visas...let me see, how about one that gives me a PhD in political science with a verified dissertation adviser via a 800 number and let the school be...I don't know, how about Yale...
wa la......political consultant am I, 1,2,3.  :)

Yeah, honestly probably all opinions should be taken in, but I've read the reactions, look at the flyer, read the reactions again and damn it, I still like it, so that's my 2 cents.

i have found myself giving excellent ratings to both kinds of posts in this diary, bc I agree with so many points people are making, both negative and positive.

And I am sure that some of my trepidation is coming from the fact that I am so damn wrappped up in this primary I can't see straight. 

I have not seen the Miller flyers.

How bad are they? 

I certainly think Webb needs to not be swift boated and this flyer is attention getting at least.

Anyway, when I get confused I take a step back leave it, take another look and go with the gut first reaction.

I'm sure the campaign could do "rev 2" if they wished but I think it's a little to late to do a "focus group" and they are going to have to do something to be sure.

come on, people are giving their opinions.  They all want Webb to win on this site (except for the few trolls around).

Please don't troll rate people because they are giving their honest opinions.

perhaps not badly.  I enjoy the use of humor, but humor is most effective when it contains some element of self-deprecation in it.  That's why Wellstone's ads his first go around were so effective.

But this is the first piece of literature many voters are going to see from Jim.  And because of the way it was posted on the internet, by then it may already have been countered by the Miller folks.  Poor message discipline, if nothing else.

so troll me already, Ben.  Whether mailed or not, this is in circulation now.  If Webb was running for local office and all the issues were well known -- then, Ok, cute.  This race, however, is for the United States Senate. 

The worst part of this flyer, if it is real, is the tag line at the bottom:  "Paid for and authorized by Webb for Senate."  A smart campaign would have used a surrogate.

If this is real, Webb has now opened the door for ridicule.  Whether there is slapback will be known soon enough.

This makes the Webb campaign look like it is for City Council.

I think it sucks.  Jim Webb is way too good for this flyer.  It's way too aggressive.  "Shut up Killer?"  That's horrid.  If the campaign goes with this, I will sick.

I'm not really into the shut up killer bit.  It's a little much.

Again, I am underwhelmed, I guess is the best word for it.  But then again, I don't have a solution, so...

The cartoon aspect sort of trivializes the whole senate race which could certainly dampen turnout. I just didn't get a positive feeling after reading the flyer. And there a few deadly and unwise words that shouldn't have made it into the flyer.

I hope the Webb campaign drops this idea. It could backfire.

I feel like it is almost making fun of Webb making fun of Miller making fun of the whole thing...I don't know, it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I am gonna give YOU a knock out punch for troll rating my opinions!  ;)

Obviously, I am not, and I am just teasing.  But honestly, bc I do respect you, why do you think that my opinion is unproductive?

Thats what this flyer is... before the actual knockout punch tomorrow.

There we go, now me and Ben are having FUN!!!  ;)

But seriously, what is going on tomorow?  Something else?  Something bigger than our endorsements today?

I CAN'T TAKE IT!!!!!!!!!!!

Ben, you obviously want a woman to punch you in the face, or you like to mess around.  Either way, its funny.  :)

I've just sent some comments to the Webb campaign.  I sincerely hope though that this mailing piece doesn't run in NoVA.  I agree whole-heartedly with teacherken that this is a terrible first introduction to Webb. 

I can't speak to how this will play at a Bluegrass festival in SWVA.  But NoVAites are generally pretty uptight and lack a sense of irony when it comes to politics.  Politics is serious business for people inside the beltway because election outcomes have real consequences for individuals and families.  On the other side, we have a 4% unemployment rate--one of the lowest in the nation.  So for politically unconnected families, the "job killer" label won't have any resonance.  It's a great drawing board idea that may play well in some parts of the state.  NoVA isn't one of them. 

:)

BTW, great work with the signs in Richmond.  That was definitely above and beyond the call of duty.

This piece will not be mailed.  I used a cartoon in my campaign. A cartoonist friend of mine created it, and when we wanted it used on my last mail piece, one of my volunteers protested and said that it was not professional. We insisted, and it became a big hit.  Months after I had won the Primary, people told me they still had that cartoon on the refrigerator door. Cartoons are fun.

How negative was your cartoon?  I agree that a cartoon could be good.  I object to the part where Jim says "Shut up, Killer."  Actually the parts about Miller aren't so offensive to me, but the picture with Jim in it is over the top to me.

I like Jim's picture!  That to me was the funniest part.  I cannot see how the word "killer" is so offensive in the context of Job Killer. There is truth in this cartoon; these are all facts.

I ran against someone with whom I used to be friends, so we were careful not to get negative. Therefore, my cartoon was different. 

This race is very tense, where the opponent started out negative.  For me, this cartoon lightens things up.

considering your prior experience with the subject matter.  And now that I know it is not being mailed out, I have better feelings about it. 

Thanks Ingrid!  :)

did a cartoon flyer with the incumbents Sheriffs wife as the "Ugly Duckling".  People told him not to do it... yada yada yada, and look who is still Sheriff today.

The mailing would definitely get people's attention because it's not your standard mailing piece.  In a sense that's good.  However, I'd be willing to wager that there's a different set of unstated rules and expectations that apply to local and federal elections. 

Interesting back story.  This might work as a follow-up piece--still I'm glad to hear that we're not running with this one as an introduction.  Thanks for keeping the diehards in the loop on this one.

points here about why the flier could be bad for Webb.  Some of the images and the "shut up killer" probably goes too far since it's unlikely that most people even know about that verbal exchange.

But I still like the concept and completely agree with Ingrid here.  Something unique will stand out.  People will take a few extra seconds to look at it.  And that's HUGE when it comes to marketing.

There are so many of the same campaign fliers that pile up in mailboxes - how many casual voters take more than a second to glance at them before tossing them in the trash?  If they take a few extra seconds to see it, to process it, to get to the message, then a stronger impression has been made.

IMO, the cartoon aspect doesn't matter much.  There will be backlash for not being serious enough, but it will be made up for by the fact that the general public will take more time to look at it.

Clearly, this flyer is in the love-it-or-hate-it category (judging by comments here and at Not Larry Sabato).  If this really is something official from the Webb campaign, I hope they consider that even a lot of those who love Jim feel queasy about this flyer. 

After all, you're not going to find a more sympathetic focus group than this crowd...

Got so much media attention it just raked it in at the box office.

There is a phrase,

"All attention is good"

So, sometimes controversy gets tongues awaggin' and they check out what's going when something sweet and nice is given an initial "isn't that wonderful" and promptly used as bird cage liner.

I'm not going to post our mailing lists, but I fired off the flyer because the corporate media is now claiming there just are no engineers because they ran out of H-1B Visas (how about hiring the many unemployed and over 40 Americans???  what a concept)..so people are very depressed right now...

so I sent it out for fun and the responses are pouring in:

****ING FANTASTIC
OUTRAGEOUS
This is a scream
LOVE IT!

and on and on.

So, I have a funny feeling if this flyer goes out to any group who knows about offshore outsourcing and insourcing they are going to eat it up.

YOU ARE HILARIOUS!