Webb did NOT Decline to Debate Miller

By: Lowell
Published On: 4/20/2006 9:51:36 AM

Contrary to what Vincent Thoms reported yesterday on his usually excellent blog, "Too Conservative," Jim Webb has NOT rejected any invitations to debate in Fairfax.  Quite the contrary, this story looks like spin from the Miller campaign, malicious and weaselly as it always is.  Here's what the Webb campaign has to say on this issue:

Jim has NOT declined to debate Miller.  We are working on scheduling.  WE WILL DEBATE MILLER.

Seems clear enough to me. End of story, as far as I'm concerned.

P.S. On the Rasmussen Poll, my only comment is that George Allen starts with a huge lead over either Democratic candidate, but Jim Webb remains the only one with a chance in hell of beating Bored George.


Comments



Miller's Continual Manipulation (Alicia - 4/20/2006 10:04:06 AM)
I'm getting the picture that Miller will just outright lie, since he learned in his PR lobbying background, that even if what he says isn't true, the lasting impression of his lie will sway a few voters his way.

He is making me sick.



On that poll (Rob - 4/20/2006 10:10:10 AM)
Stuck at 50% isn't exactly a great place to be if your an incumbent, with 20% undecided.  Name ID is the issue for Webb and Miller right now, and I'd actually be scared my numbers weren't higher if I were Allen. 

Also, note the following from the poll:

A month ago, Allen led Harris 56% to 27% and Webb 54% to 30%.

Looks to me like Allen's numbers are softening a bit.  We'll see if this is a trend, but Miller looks much stronger than last time (dropping Allen by 6 points and while rising 7 points himself) while Webb is also holding is own at 30% while dropping Allen's numbers (four points).

My advice to the Democrats is to work on name ID in a big way.  With Allen spending so much time out of the state, they'll have the Virginia press for themselves.



COMMENT HIDDEN (sophrosyneva - 4/20/2006 10:10:56 AM)


um, hello. (phriendlyjaime - 4/20/2006 10:23:06 AM)
why is one blogger to be trusted (esp. one named TOO CONSEVATIVE) and raising kaine bloggers are not to be trusted?  What evidence?  What are you even talking about?  Where is this miraculous evidence?  Is it from Miller's camp?  Is that evidence?  So, I guess you agree with everything the Bush admin does, since their words are "evidence."

Silly.

As for the poll numbers, this is only the beginning of a huge uphill climb for Geroge Allen, and Miller may as well take a lawnchair out and watch the battle.  Great, he can raise $$.  Great, he is a nice guy.  Were you at shad planking while we Webb supporters were "putting signs up in the woods?"  Are you even kidding me?  Miller, albeit not there for very long, would not have had any of the republicans asking questions as Webb did.  Now I realize Miller was busy LYING to African Americans in the city about how Webb hates black people, but you wanna talk bad campaign move, well, missing shad plaking was IT.  Period, end of story.

Jim had REPUBLICANS DEMOCRATS AND INDEPENTS BEHIND HIM.  Miller has some paid staffers and some IT people who are crazy enough to think that Miller actually cares about them.



Stop the Spin (Too Conservative - 4/20/2006 12:39:09 PM)
Webb said no...now he's going back.
http://tooconservative.com/?p=470


No spin here. (phriendlyjaime - 4/20/2006 12:47:34 PM)
But, like everyone has agreed, we don't trust your website.


Actually, (phriendlyjaime - 4/20/2006 12:48:54 PM)
I retract that.  Not everyone, and I won't lump others in with me.  I stand corrected.  I don't trust your website.  :)


Vincent, did you contact... (Lowell - 4/20/2006 12:51:49 PM)
the Webb campaign yourself for comment?  I did, and I have no reason to disbelieve what they told me.  Perhaps it's not that anyone's a liar here, it's just that the different parties see things differently?  By the way, did you ever see the movie Rashomon? It's a classic, which "gives us four viewpoints" of the same crime.  I strongly recommend it.


A monumental occasion (Josh - 4/20/2006 12:56:29 PM)
wow! 

Lowell, you actually just invited a republican to enter the post-modern era.

If anyone's a good candidate it's Vincent. 

If he ever switches parties, the Average IQ of Virginia Republicans will suddenly drop a full 10 points.



"If he ever switches parties, the Average IQ of Virginia Republicans will suddenly drop a full 10 points." (Loudoun County Dem - 4/20/2006 1:32:08 PM)
...just like it did when George Allen JOINED the Virginia Replublicans...


Truth is not Burying (Alicia - 4/20/2006 10:12:37 AM)
Truth is truth - take it as you will


When will Miller stop his lies? (summercat - 4/20/2006 10:14:20 AM)
What is the point?  Believe me, he lost all my respect when he started the AA stuff--and this is in the same vein. I was willing to give him some slack for taking on the race while Webb dithered, but no more.


Here's what the FCCC is saying ..... (rjl - 4/20/2006 10:19:24 AM)
Sounds to me like a joint appearance rather than a big "debate," but Webb did apparently decline and FCCC is keeping the door open if his schedule changes.

http://policysoup.blogspot.com/

No matter the daily joy of trying to "get" Miller, the facts are that FCCC is stating clearly that it invited Miller and Webb for presentations and questions; that Miller accepted, Webb declined and that FCCC made "every possible effort to reconcile its schedule" with Webb's.

That is not Miller spin, as you love to claim.

 



Is a schedule conflict (Alicia - 4/20/2006 10:21:33 AM)
a decline when the intent is to accept?


That would depend (rjl - 4/20/2006 10:42:36 AM)
particularly if one is associating a negative to the word "decline."  If you are hosting a party and invite me to attend, and I decline for schedule conflicts, but then you offer to change the date to accommodate my schedule and I still decline -- do I have intent to accept?

Which sort of sounds like a sub-plot for a lot of Hugh Grant movies.  How about dinner on Saturday? Can't.  Sunday? Busy.  Three weeks for Friday? I'll have to check and get back to you.

This is a rather simple issue that is being made silly by (1) over use of the word "debate," (2) failure to check facts and (3) reflexive assumption and attack on Miller.



Miller spin... (Arturo - 4/20/2006 11:31:46 AM)


I'm still not taking it as a fact (phriendlyjaime - 4/20/2006 10:27:34 AM)
until I see FROM THE FCCC that Webb DECLINED due to anything OTHER than a schedule conflict.  I'm not taking some guy's words on a blog, when 2 other blogs say it was a scehdule conflict, and the FCCC says NOTHING except that Miller is attending.


Not clear on something (Greg Bouchillon - 4/20/2006 10:28:10 AM)
Lowell, from the quote you posted, it doesn't mention the FCCC directly, just debating Miller. I'm normally not one to nitpick this stuff, but was the FCCC specifically mentioned by the Web campaign or was it just that they had scheduling conflicts in general to debate Miller. I just think it would be best to make it very clear if the specifically said the FCCC.


No, they didn't mention the FCCC directly (Lowell - 4/20/2006 11:00:59 AM)
...simply that they couldn't make that date due to a scheduling conflict but that they WILL DEBATE MILLER. This is really making a mountain out of a molehill, don't you think?


Mountain or Mole Hill: It begins .... (rjl - 4/20/2006 12:06:00 PM)
...(scroll up)....

Here:  "Quite the contrary, this story looks like spin from the Miller campaign, malicious and weaselly as it always is.  Here's what the Webb campaign has to say on this issue: 'Jim has NOT declined to debate Miller.  We are working on scheduling.  WE WILL DEBATE MILLER.'
Seems clear enough to me. End of story, as far as I'm concerned. " - Lowell



Fascinating Coincidence (Josh - 4/20/2006 10:37:04 AM)
Fascinating!

VB Dems and Too Conservative have precisely the same message on the same day at the same time.

Stunning coincidence.  I wonder who might have supplied this critical scoop the day after Harris Miller was a no-show at Shad planking.

Makes me wonder who might have an interest in distracting from Miller's complete failure to consider that Virginia exists outside of the beltway.

Just makes me wonder.



You know what else is funny? (phriendlyjaime - 4/20/2006 10:47:47 AM)
While we were with Webb, supporting him and bringing sheer AWESOMENESS to wakefield, VA, it seems a lot of Miller supporters were writing diaries and creating accounts for the website.

Again, STUNNING COINCIDENCE.



Well, at least we know what their priorities are... (Lowell - 4/20/2006 11:01:47 AM)
n/t


Some conspiracy? (elevandoski - 4/20/2006 12:43:04 PM)
What are you trying to insinuate about VB Dems here, Josh? Please explain.  Thanks, eileen.


How much more explanation is neccessary though? (phriendlyjaime - 4/20/2006 12:55:56 PM)
I thought it read quite plainly:

Fascinating Coincidence (4.00 / 1) 
Fascinating!
VB Dems and Too Conservative have precisely the same message on the same day at the same time.

Stunning coincidence.  I wonder who might have supplied this critical scoop the day after Harris Miller was a no-show at Shad planking.

Makes me wonder who might have an interest in distracting from Miller's complete failure to consider that Virginia exists outside of the beltway.

Just makes me wonder.

I think he is making the point that 2 blogs where Webb is not the favored candidate broke a very fishy and "not based on facts" story at the same time when every politico in VA knew darn well where all of the Webb Heads were going to be yesterday.  That's all.  Not a conspiracy, just funny; and no, not hahaha funny, but hmmmmmmmmm funny.

Whatever, who cares?  Webb rocks, no negativity or lies or spin from his staff (volunteers/BLOGGERS are a different story-let's not forget that.  When PAID STAFFERS, and by paid, I think it goes for having been paid at all, anytime, go out and spread negativity, it is just bad form, and completely unprofessional), and he is going to win the race.
 



Don't Confuse You with the Facts.. (rjl - 4/20/2006 11:13:33 AM)
Rather than continue the pattern of inventing conspiracy theories, why not just contact the FCCC and check the facts.

Phone:  703-749-0400

Email:  ptyahla@fccc.org

Blog:  policysoup.blogspot.com

The attempt to schedule this event has, according to FCCC, been an effort dating back to March and that Webb was asked to find a date in May that worked for him.  According to FCCC, "he could not find one."



Webb Campaign Declined Three Times to FCCC (anon06 - 4/20/2006 11:54:22 AM)
I spoke with Paul Tyahla at FCCC.

The Webb campaign declined three times.  On the second and third offer, FCCC and the Miller campaign offered the Webb campaign an open date.  The Webb campaign still declined.

Paul also said that he and the Miller campaign will gladly have Webb there, even at the last minute.  Paul was emphatic that this will remain and open invitation.

What gives?  Will Webb now accept the invite?



This just gets better and better (sophrosyneva - 4/20/2006 12:05:31 PM)
Webb is willing to go hobnob with political insiders at Shad Planking but he is unwilling to accept a simple debate with Miller in front of the FCCC?

As mentioned by many, Channel 8 would have carried it live, many big papers would have been in attendance and it would have provided a platform for regular Virginian's to meet Webb.  Yet he ran from the opportunity.

Senator Allen has accepted an invitation to debate/speak before the FCCC during the General Election, will Webb run then too?

I have to say I find it amusing that Webb is willing to send all his supporters to put up signs in Wakefield for the political insiders but he is unwilling to face Miller on a platform that will expose him to many regular Virginians.



Bad Day (Alicia - 4/20/2006 12:17:02 PM)
I know you're having a bad day due to the embarassment of your candidate Miller yesterday.  But feel better -- people actually felt sorry for him.
If you know anything about the history of Virginia Politics and reaching out to rural voters, you'd know Miller blew it BIG time.


sophrosyneva (phriendlyjaime - 4/20/2006 12:45:25 PM)
Do you like the website?  You're new here, right?  Signed up...YESTERDAY, right?

Which is fine, welcome.  We love other Democratic Party members and their staff (in my case, VOLUNTEER, like the rest of the Webb campaign-do you work for Harris Miller?) we just choose to support the better of the 2 democratic candidates.  As for all of the Miller rhetoric, let's face it:  You don't have much to go on.  Maybe Webb has stuff to do; maybe he is making sure that something better than debating someone he has already appeared with and who doesn't really answer questions anyway doesn't have to be ignored just so he can share a stage with Miller; maybe he is hoping that they both get their OWN TIME ALONE.  Or maybe he did blow them off.  The thing is, NONE OF US KNOW all of the facts, and if you are just here to try to trash Webb, well, good luck.  Maybe a site where the majority of bloggers supported Miller would be a better place to go.  Not telling you to leave, like I said, we are the party of inclusion, but the game is old, recognizable, and falling on deaf ears.



Actually... (Loudoun County Dem - 4/20/2006 12:53:06 PM)
Sophrosyneva registered on RaisingKaine.com this morning (April 20th) at 10:03:31 AM...

Just good timing I guess...



Only in America (Kathy Gerber - 4/20/2006 9:43:29 PM)
..can ordinary citizens become yuppies, hippies and political insiders overnight.

Did you know today is National High Five Day?  Another fine Virginia tradition. High-5's all around.

Exposing both candidates to all regular Virginians is a splendid idea. I can get on board with that.  And remember, you heard it from a political insider.

Let lucent truth raise up the man,
of calloused hand and arm of iron..



I called and spoke with Paul (Lowell - 4/20/2006 1:38:48 PM)
I have also left a message with the Webb campaign.  I will post more on this later, but as of right now, I've got to say that I'm puzzled.


Right, and why not contact the Webb campaign... (Lowell - 4/20/2006 12:25:38 PM)
for comment?  (703) 778-4080

Also, see here for contact info.



Good catch, (rjl - 4/20/2006 2:36:32 PM)
point taken.  Any response yet to your call to the Webb campaign?


I was suggesting that if you're interested, (Lowell - 4/20/2006 2:56:57 PM)
you contact the Webb campaign.  Aside from what I already printed, the Webb campaign denied to me that they were given a  2 1/2-week window, but instead said that it was 3 days.  Who knows, but I don't want to get into "he said, she said" on this.  Personally, I think Webb should attend the event if at all possible, and have made my feelings clear to the campaign. However, I am not part of the campaign, obviously, so it's not my call.


Microanalyzed! (thegools - 4/20/2006 12:01:09 PM)
I have found at times that we in our enthusiasm tend to microanalyze things a bit much. This is an example in point.

I have invited Webb numerous times to speak at my campus, but he has had too busy of a schedule to find a time that matches with the times we have available.



"He and the Miller Campaign (Alicia - 4/20/2006 12:02:02 PM)
will gladly have Webb there?"
What the heck does that mean?  Is this Miller's party or something?


Clarification (anon06 - 4/20/2006 12:11:48 PM)
That was written wrong.  Sorry.

Paul understood that the Webb campaign may again decline an invited because of the tight primary schedule.

He contacted the Miller campaign and asked them for an open date.  The Miller campaign agreed.

Then Paul contacted, then contacted again, the Webb campaign for an invite with an open date.

The FCCC really wants both candidates to appear together, and Paul went the extra mile to offer the open date.

Instead, Paul had to release this late yesterday:

http://www.fccc.org/event/events/policymakers



Really interesting - All the new folks here, welcome to you (JennyE - 4/20/2006 12:22:56 PM)
I see a few new commenters who have signed up today on RK to register their "displeasure" that "Webb is refusing to debate Miller." Nonsense.

I'll take the Webb campaign's word anytime. Jim Webb will debate Miller at the FCCC or wherever.



Straight from FCCC.org (anon06 - 4/20/2006 12:45:14 PM)
Then why did the FCCC state this on their website?

"Meet Harris Miller, Democrat Candidate for United States Senate 

Monday, May 15th, 2006 8:00am - 9:30am 

On May 15th, Chamber members will have the opportunity to meet and listen to an issues-driven discussion with Harris Miller, a Democrat contender in this year's Senate race. Attendees will be offered the invaluable opportunity to network with, hear from, and ask questions of a candidate seeking to challenge current Virginia Senator George Allen in the fall. Limited seating at this event will ensure maximum exposure in this high-caliber discussion. Miller, a Fairfax County resident, has spent his career in the policy areas of technology, transportation and immigration.

The opportunity to meet this candidate prior to the June primary is a must-attend event!

(Please Note: The Chamber has also invited the other Democrat running for Senate, James Webb, to the event. The Webb campaign declined citing a scheduling conflict. If Mr. Webb's schedule changes, and he chooses to attend, we will notify Chamber members immediately.)"

http://www.fccc.org/event/events/policymakers

If what Lowell was told by the Webb campaign is true, then why did FCCC go ahead and set a time and date with only Miller? 

To be honest, I hope that Webb accepts, they find a good date and time, a large hotel room is reserved, and all of us have the opportunity to attend this event.  That is what FCCC wants, because they make money (they made a lot of money with the Kaine-Kilgore Debate).  If Webb accepts, this issue goes away.

 



Did you read this? (JennyE - 4/20/2006 12:53:05 PM)
"If Mr. Webb's schedule changes, and he chooses to attend, we will notify Chamber members immediately.)" --- Read between the lines.

A schedule conflict. Big deal to you. However, it doesn't mention that Webb has outright rejected attending which he hasn't by the way. Don't be a Miller tool or are you?



Contact Paul yourself... (anon06 - 4/20/2006 1:31:50 PM)
...if you don't believe me.

He spoke with me earlier, so why not make the call and find out for yourself? 



Find out what exactly? (JennyE - 4/20/2006 1:39:50 PM)
Webb had a scheduling conflict due to the kickoff of his campaign. No where has he categorically said he won't attend.

Stop making a mountain out of a molehole.



PLEASE!!! (Loudoun County Dem - 4/20/2006 12:30:31 PM)
Anyone who implies that James Webb is scared or "running from" anything obviously does not know the first thing about him or his life history and is making, imho, a HUGE tactical error.

This strikes me as an impotent attempt at "swiftboating" Webb.



Ummm... let us think... (ajacied - 4/20/2006 12:45:26 PM)
for a moment... Harris Miller, a former immigration lobbyist and representative of Information Technology companies who lives in Fairfax County is invited to speak and mingle with the Fairfax County Chamber of Commerce. Can you imagine a more pro-Miller audience? This would be like Harris Miller accepting Jim Webb's invitation to debate him at the Pentagon in front of Soldiers, Sailors, and Marines. Would Harris have the guts to do that? If Harris will offer to mingle in a crowd at the same time as Jim at the Pentagon or at Ft. Myer, we'll talk about Jim mingling with Harris at the Fairfax Chamber.

If the Fairfax Chamber were offering a true debate such as happened between Kilgore and Kaine last year, it'd be a different story and I'd chastise Jim for not accepting.

Best wishes,
Amsterdamse Voetbol Club Ajax



Weak (Josh - 4/20/2006 12:53:04 PM)
There actually was a much less friendly environment: Gerry Connoly's St. Patrick's Day Fundraiser. 

Connoly is the County Board Chair and likely candidate for national office in years to come.  He called every Democrat in his rolodex and begged them to support Harris Miller in the straw poll.

The result?

WEBB MOPPED THE FLOOR WITH HARRIS MILLER 58-42.

If you think there's a single fiber in Jim Webb's body, you need to get a grip on reality.

Sometimes a scheduling conflict is a scheduling conflict.  Wake up to reality and quit yer weepin'.



I wrote (Josh - 4/20/2006 12:58:36 PM)
If you think there's a single fiber in Jim Webb's body

shoulda been:

If you think there's a single fiber of cowardice in Jim Webb's body

my bad.



Obviously you couldn't organize a debate for active duty (Alice Marshall - 4/20/2006 2:51:12 PM)
This would be like Harris Miller accepting Jim Webb's invitation to debate him at the Pentagon in front of Soldiers, Sailors, and Marines. Would Harris have the guts to do that?

Why not persuade some veteran'ws group to organize a debate, extend an invitation and see what happens?

There is nothing magical about Fairfax, could be in any part of Virginia.



I actually agree with Alice on this one... (Lowell - 4/20/2006 2:52:54 PM)
will wonder never cease? :)


I would hope... (ajacied - 4/20/2006 8:34:55 PM)
That the Webb campaign is trying to organize debates all around the state. I, personally, would like to see Harris Miller and James Webb participate in a series of Lincoln-Douglass debates around the state. Talk about a way to energize Democrats, generate tremendous amounts of press coverage for each. Imagine, UNSCRIPTED POLITICAL DISCOURSE *GASP*!!!!

As I wrote in the comments of another blog:

I can't support Harris Miller at this time as I don't know where he stands on the issues. I have followed this Democratic Primary pretty closely and I have yet to hear or read of a single issue position that Harris Miller has taken. I don't know if I agree with him or not. One of the few posts I have seen even remotely positive about Harris Miller came from Sean Holihan who very thoughtfully and graciously laid out his reasons for supporting Harris Miller. I appreciated that, but I'd like to hear it from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

Serious times call for serious leaders. I believe Jim Webb is the type of serious leader we need in these times. He is a man who has had many years to carefully weigh some of the greatest issues of our time. He has thought and written about how to project American might throughout the world in protection of our interests. He has thought and written about how best to achieve a true meritocratic society in the United States, where ones economic, social, or racial background (or gender) is TRULY no barrier to advancement.

You may disagree with where Jim comes down on these issues, but you cannot argue that his writings provoke deep thought and provide excellent insight into American politics and culture. At least I know what Jim Webb stands for and that he is willing to think deeply and critcally about the most important issues facing America today.

Regards,
Ajacied



And.. (ajacied - 4/20/2006 8:35:48 PM)
Jim has scheduled two debates with Mr. Miller per his website: http://www.webbforsenate.com/calendar/index.php#0609

Cheers,
Ajacied



This is not a debate (ajacied - 4/20/2006 1:05:28 PM)
Can we stop calling it that? Thanks,

Ajacied