Certain people have a different point of view about specifically first world affirmative action which, for lack of a better word, will be referred to as "centrist" here. They claim that affirmative action makes sense, but only to the point where it helps the disadvantaged members of minorities, as opposed to the middle and upper class. They believe that affirmative action, as it is now, is not fulfilling its original purpose (to bring minorities out of poverty) as the vast majority of minorities, in the first world at least, are already middle-class. There have been cases of middle-class minorities receiving better jobs or college acceptance rates than whites of equal or lower income or social standing. According to this point of view, affirmative action should be eliminated and joined with the normal welfare system that helps both whites and blacks that are lower-class. They believe that affirmative action should only be used to bring the lower class, not a specific racial group, out of poverty.
Sounds fairly reasonable to me (although I'm of the Bill Clinton/Al Gore "mend it not end it" school myself) - an affirmative action system based far more on economic class than on race. And, by the way, since economic class and race are strongly correlated, a change like this to the program would not really hurt African Americans, but it WOULD stop discriminating against poor white kids from Appalachia or wherever. It also would move us towards a more "color blind" society, which I believe should be everyone's ultimate goal as we move into the 21st century. Finally, I would say that this "centrist" view comes close to "mend it don't end it," and also pretty much captures where Jim Webb is coming from on this issue.
Speaking of economics, Dr. Thomas Sowell - an African American economist with a PhD from the University of Chicago - wrote a book in 2004 called "Affirmative Action Around the World: An Empirical Study." The book argues, albet from a strong conservative perspective, that Affirmative Action programs have not reduced black poverty rates ("the black poverty rate was cut in half before affirmative action ? and has barely changed since then), have not improved relations between races, and have not helped poor people of other races (white, Asian). Sowell also finds that Affirmative Action programs have led to skewed results at colleges and universities. Here's what Sowell has to say on that subject:
Minority students are systematically mismatched with institutions due to racial preferences, where they underperform relative to the student body. Had they gone to an institution without the help of affirmative action, to a less selective school, they would have received better grades and graduated at higher rates.When the top-level schools recruit black students who would normally be qualified to succeed at the level next to the top, then the second tier of institutions faces the prospect of either being conspicuously lacking in minority students or dipping down to the next level below to bring in enough minority students for a statistically respectable "representation." Usually they end up mismatching students. Once begun at the top, this process continues on down the line.
Now, I'm not saying I agree or disagree with this - I'm certainly no expert on this subject! - simply that I find it intriguing. What does other research on Affirmative Action indicate? Has it worked 100%, 50%, 0% or what? Perhaps it's time, 41 years after the start of Affirmative Action in America, to do a fundamental rethinking of how we're doing - succeeding, failing, mixed results? - with this program? Perhaps that's exactly what Jim Webb - albeit using language I would not have used in his 2000 book review - is trying to do here? Is Harris Miller arguing that we should never "mend" Affirmative Action, just leave it exactly the way it is for the foreseeable future? If so, my guess is that Miller is in the small minority on this issue, and that Webb's in the large majority.
[UPDATE: Just to emphasize, I am NOT saying I agree with the conclusions reached by Dr. Sowell, I'm just saying I would like to an open, honest discussion of this issue. What other studies do people recommend? I'd like to learn more about Affirmative Action, how it's worked, what has changed, etc.]
On the "four Virginias," I look forward to your post.
Thanks.
I will not try to encapsulate his writing (I could in no way do it justice) but I will say that I was also a bit alarmed when I heard "Jim Webb is against Affirmative Action" with no other context. I have since read both "Born Fighting" which allayed my fears since I saw that he was interested in improving social equality rather than hindering racial equality.
I have also since read "The Nightingale's Song" and learned that Jim Webb is the reason that the statue at the Vietnam War memorial has an African American soldier (The only statue on the mall with an African American).
Several years ago, there was an article in "Newsweek" about a young working class student named Daniel Spangenburger who had excellent grades, respectable SAT scores, did volunteer work with children, helped his mother (who was in treatment for cancer), AND would be the first in his family to attend college. He longed to study computer science at Cornell or Carnegie-Mellon. Sounds like a great candidate for affirmative action, right? Wrong. He is white. The title of the article was appropriately enough, "Falling Through the Cracks". "Newsweek" published my leter to the editor in which I noted that because of the publicity, Daniel might actually get a nibble for those schools but that many others like him would not. Another letter noted that Daniel should be aware that "often, really bright but poor kids join the military not only to serve their country but to pay for college". This letter writer was one "Name Withheld". By the time this was published, we were in Iraq.
I firmly believe that the US owes the descendants of slaves an opportunity to raise themselves out of poverty. Poverty, poor schools, and isolation can hold a person back, whatever his race. Once such a person has reached comfortable middle class status, however, affirmative action should cease. To continue with it is to suggest that black citizens - even well-educated black citizens - somehow can't compete on their own. One of the most uncomfortable conversations that I have ever had was with a black man who was at pains to assure me that he had gotten into college on his own merit, not affirmative action. Since I had said nothing to suggest that I thought otherwise (I'd asked where he attended college), I have to assume that this was a touchy subject with him and probably others.
Affirmative action never affected white people who have achieved a certain amount of wealth and status, not to mention connections, as I noted in another posting regarding Bill Clinton. It was always working and lower middle class whites who were more likely to be affected and who were expected to make the sacrifices gladly or at least quietly.
One aspect regarding affirmative action that is not generally noted is this: It no longer is engineered to help the descendants of slaves. Diversity is the rule of the day, and other "minorities" including Hispanics are also covered. What is the likely effect on national unity of granting preferential treatment to newly arriving immigrants over long-term US citizens and in competition with the descendants of slaves, whom the program was set up to help in the first place? Those African-Americans and Scotch-Irish may find common cause sooner than you think.
Maybe Doug Wilder???
Given that, I realize that the issuance of these endorsements, and I agree with VaBchDem that most likely the Miller camp provided their soundbites, was a complete and utter disservice to the issue itself.
And Webb's positions on it are, in fact, honorable, even if I don't agree 100%.
Calling Webb a racist is simply inexcusable. How are we going to ever make more progress on these issues in this country if people don't start seeing this in a non-reactionary light. That light is exactly what the Miller camp wanted, and unfortunately for them, it's power source won't last very long because any thinking person can see how weak it is.
There is great irony here in that DeLay's own invincibility/arrogance complex led him to believe that throwing several thousand more Democratic voters into his district wouldn't come close to doing him in. Ha, ha! The sacrificial lamb to a Republican Congress. I love it.
I believe what may be happening in the Abramoff trial is that Delay is being implicated with the organized crime. -Just a hunch.
"You shall then cut the largest tree in the forest with...a HERRING!"
That statement makes no sense.
I have received JDN for some time and it is devastating to Miller because it notes his unrelenting attack on US workers in gorey detail. It is astonishing to me that HM has a shred of credibility in Democratic circles.
From C/Net News.com
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Want to know why women's share of tech jobs is shrinking? Look at the temporary guest workers entering the country, most of whom are male.
That's the case being made by a group that advocates on behalf of U.S. software programmers and opposes H-1B visas. The Programmers Guild plans to release a report this week that re-examines data from a workforce diversity study published last week by the Information Technology Association of America industry group (THAT WOULD BE HARRIS MILLER'S FORMER GROUP). Among the guild's arguments: the use of H-1B visas contributes to low shares of information technology jobs held by women and some racial minorities.
"Often employers force their U.S. workers to train their H-1B replacements, under threat of termination for cause and loss of benefits--driving women and underrepresented minorities out of the profession," the report states.
A number of reports, including the recent ITAA study, have documented a decline in women's share of tech jobs. The ITAA found that the percentage of women in the IT workforce dropped from 41 percent in 1996 to 32.4 percent in 2004. That report also discovered that employers hired men at a higher rate than women between 2003 and 2004. The number of unemployed skilled male IT workers dropped 34.4 percent from 189,000 to 124,000, while the number of unemployed skilled female IT workers dropped only 5.2 percent, from 97,000 to 92,000.
According to the ITAA, the declining representation of women is due largely to the fact that one out of every three women in the IT workforce falls into administrative job categories that have experienced significant overall declines in recent years.
The Programmers Guild, though, said a factor in the underrepresentation of women in the IT workforce is that a disproportionate number of H-1B workers are male. The guild cited federal data from 2002, showing that women made up 24 percent of temporary workers and trainees admitted to the country.
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Hey, you hire a few H-1B's from India and forget your "family friendly" environment, right? Kids are women's work, right? I'm no big fan of Jim Webb's but HM is from hunger!
There is a big difference between letting an opponent's record speak for itself and negatively attacking that opponent. The Webb folks, to their credit so far, have not gone the negative attack route, doesn't see the logic in that, and never will. On the other hand, a candidate's record tells a lot without twisting any facts. The truth is the truth.
So I say, we let voters know about Harris Miller's record. There's nothing wrong with that.
Miller has some very unsavory links to the GOP including thousands given personally to several promenant GOP figures and PACS. It is in the public record. (Go look on campaign donation sites for yourself.)
The truth is I don't care that much about the donations except when people paint Miller as this "dyed-in-the-wool" Dem, or when people begin digging up dirt on Webb.
(Webb has little dirt, so it is being spread thin. Miller has a bit more, so he should be careful lest he destroy himself and "his" party in the process.)
We really should stick together. Let these transgressions be bygones and and rally to take down the "empty suit" Allen!!!
Much of Miller's lobbying career was about promoting legislation which would help lower labor costs (like expansions of H1-B visas) for ITAA's members (and the clients of his former lybbying "small business"). Of course, for the people who work for those companies, rather than own them, that means LOWER WAGES...
Seems that if Webb can't beat Miller, he doesn't stand a chance against Allen.
Miller is going for Webb's jugular. Why shouldn't we do the same to Miller? And I bet Webb's going to start going after Miller now, as well.
I just don't think the fact that, while conducting his job as a lobbyist (who has to deal with those in power), Miller gave money to/raised money for Republicans, is really world-ending. It's just hypocritical of him to pull out all these attacks saying that Webb is just Republican-lite because he worked for Regean, hasn't volunteered for Dems, has nuanced views on AA, etc when he, as a lobbyist, raised/gave money to Republicans.
Why can't we all just get along?
I'm not sure. I spoke to some people in the campaign, and it sounds like they may be running a defense piece.
Plus, as the Ghost of Tom Joad just said, if both sides kill each other in the primary, it leaves Allen with an insta-win regardless. This just has the potential to be a bad boat for the democrats.
I agree. Discuss the issues and bring stuff out about yourself in a positive light. There are plenty of good things that each campaign can bring out about themselves that highlight their positive attributes.
Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world. This type of "shock and awe" brand of politics is too prevelant not to be used and abused by a 24 hour news cycle. So Webb and his supporters would be misplaying this if they didn't fight back.
The question is are we doing all of the opposition research for Allen already? His campaign will step back and watch us evicerate ourselves until we are so weak that he can push down the last one standing. That's the tragedy.
I'll give this to Webb and his supporters: they know rapid response.
I didn't expect this, and I don't like if it paints Democrats in a bad light to the Republicans. If it's just revealing our gradients on issues, like this post, I support it. But if it attempts to attack a candidate's integrity, honesty, and calls him a racist, that's not going to help us.
I have to say that it annoys me when Miller's surrogates try to imply that because Webb was a Republican 20 years ago, he can't be a Democrat now. Hell, I know fiercely partisan Democrats who were Republicans more recently than that.
And Miller should clarify his dealings with Abraham and Hastert. Especially the comment that he "hope Abraham gets re-elected." I mean it's one thing to lobby a guy who has no chance of losing, but Abraham was one of the most vulnerable GOP incumbents in 2000, and in fact did lose to Stabenow. So sticking w/him even then seems to take most of the wind out of Miller's "I'm-the-real-Democrat" tactic.
Miller should do what Webb did: unequivocally reject his past statements and say that he wouldn't support Abraham and Hastert today. It wouldn't be hard.
He consistantly has shown class as his campaign response clearly shows. He confronts Miller's tactics without being Ugly to Miller. Too bad I can't say the same about Miller.
I still call on civility in this race. Run on merit and attack Allen!!! He is the target.
Do you realize that the candidate that pays you is utterly pathetic in nearly every way possible?