UPDATE 10:07am: Sorry for the break there, was just running around taking some post-debate pictures. Here's one of George Allen accepting a "clean" coal baseball cap from a representative of ACCCE, a coal industry front group.UPDATE 10:07am: Sorry for the break there, was just running around taking some post-debate pictures. Here's one of George Allen accepting a "clean" coal baseball cap from a representative of ACCCE, a coal industry front group.
Look, you gotta give George Allen credit. He is a true believer. A government bailout of our economic system will not affect his trust in market-based solutions. A massive increase in gasoline and coal prices will not shake his faith in fossil fuels. George Allen will not let reality get in the way of his core beliefs.
Gov. Kaine absolutely blew Allen out of the water on the economic opportunities presented by clean energy. He nailed it when he said we can't look to the past for solutions -- we need to invent and invest in the clean energy future that we want. But Kaine is still feeding Virginia's state of denial when it comes to coal -- both how expensive and dirty it is and how destructive it is to the communities from which it's taken.
Previous updates after the jump.
UPDATE 8:58am: Allen says coal is a jobs producer. Has he seen this graph? Lowell has much more on coal in the comments below.
Allen says "Cuba is drilling for oil 50 miles off Florida and so should we!" Someone check the temperature in Hades - a Republican just said we should follow the policies of Fidel Castro's Cuba. But does George Allen realize there's not even enough energy there to power Cuba's meager vehicle fleet, never mind ours? Cuba imports most of its oil from Venezuela -- exactly the country Allen claims offshore drilling would ease our dependence on.
Kaine says we can't look to the past for solutions -- we need to invent the future that we want. Calls that "a sharp difference between these two campaigns." Kaine has done an excellent job of both articulating Obama's proposals and drawing clear distinctions between Obama and McCain.
UPDATE 8:50am: Allen says the key to green jobs and renewable energy is ... electric cars. Apparently he thinks they're a magic bullet. Also hits on cellulosic ethanol, green government buildings (but not private buildings). The words "wind," "solar," and "tidal" power have not escaped George Allen's lips so far this morning.
George Allen says, "It's been said that Americans are addicted to oil. I think Americans are addicted to freedom." There you have it -- George Allen says George W. Bush is too liberal on energy issues.
I don't mean to ignore Tim Kaine. He's doing a fantastic job of selling clean energy investments and green jobs. But George Allen is just so detached from reality here, it's comical.
UPDATE 8:42am: Allen says nuclear waste isn't a problem and that McCain supports dumping it in Nevada's Yucca Mountain. Kaine says "the storage issue is the problem" and that Obama opposes Yucca Mountain. Says Obama supports using cap-and-trade revenues "primarily" for safe nuclear research. Is that true? Did he mean low-carbon energy research generally?
O'Donnell asks about offshore drilling. Kaine says offshore drilling should be "a small part" of a comprehensive energy package. Says oil drilling is "a dead end strategy for this nation" and calls for more clean energy. Allen says Amercians "think we oughta drill, baby, drill." Allen refers to 2005 as "twenty-ought-five" -- did he just step out of a time machine from 1908? Allen says "I'd just as soon be getting our energy off the coast of Virginia as off the coast of Saudi Arabia or Venezuela." George Allen has absolutely no idea how much oil we use and how little is off the Virginia coast.
UPDATE 8:35am: Kaine says "we can't go to a no-coal future," implicitly in opposition to Al Gore's call for 100% clean energy within 10 years. Calls for public investment in "clean" coal. Does he know "clean" coal doesn't exist? Shouldn't we invest in technologies that are ready to go now?
Allen says Obama said "we need to tax coal." Allen calls coal an "abundant resource." Claims Virginia has lower electricity rates than other states -- does he know our power rates just went up 18%? Allen calls for more nuclear and incredibly carbon-intensive and expensive coal-to-liquids.
Neither Kaine nor Allen will admit that coal is a global warming pollution-intensive fuel that needs to be blasted out of mountains. O'Donnell doesn't follow up on how their professed support for coal is completely at odds with the candidates' proposals to cut carbon emissions.
UPDATE 8:29am: Kaine has a masterful grasp of McCain's energy and environment record and absolutely destroying him. Hits McCain for his proposal for a gas tax holiday and opposition to tightening fuel economy standards. Allen is clearly playing defense and is falling back on 20th-century GOP talking points -- market-based, sound science, etc. Does George Allen realize how ridiculous it is to be calling for market-based solutions when Wall Street is begging the federal government for public funding?
UPDATE 8:24am: O'Donnell asks about international treaties. Kaine says, "The world is already moving beyond Kyoto ... we need to be right in the middle of negotiations for the post-Kyoto accords." Hits McCain again for voting against renewable energy incentives. Allen says biofuels are driving up food prices, then slams Kyoto and calls "all these other countries" untrustworthy.
Allen says we need "strict scrutiny" and lumps in rail with "wasteful government spending." Allen says electric cars and plug-in hybrids are the transportation solution of the future. Says McCain supports rail to Dulles as a shared responsibility between the feds and the state.
UPDATE 8:16am: Kaine says America needs to take a leadership role in the world in clean energy technology and cutting carbon emissions. Allen says carbon constraints are unpopular around the world and hints at voluntary efforts. Allen has said "sound science" twice in 30 seconds. Says we can't do anything before China and India do.
Norah O'Donnell says be specific - McCain calls for cuts in carbon emissions of 60% below 1990 levels by 2050, with Obama calling for an 80% cut. How do you do that? Kaine says significant investment and for 26 years in the Senate, McCain has been a consistent opponent of clean energy investment. Allen says we need market-based incentives for "clean" coal and electric car batteries. Allen says it makes sense for government buildings to be green but that we can't expect private developers to be willing to invest in green buildings.
UPDATE 8:13am: Allen's opening statement -- price of natural gas, diesel, gas, coal, food prices up. Calls our energy policies "cockeyed." Says we need to "unleash the creativity of the American people" ... by letting Big Oil drill wherever they want. Oil drilling = creative? Says we have resources to solve our energy problems "under our land and our water" - the clear implication, NOT solar, wind, or advanced biofuel power.
UPDATE 8:10am: Kaine's opening statement -- Obama believes you grow the economy by investing. Obama supports Metro funding and rail to Dulles, while McCain has a record of being anti-public transportation. Says McCain's strategy can be summed up by "drill, baby, drill."
UPDATE 8:02am: It's the shortest Marriott I've ever seen -- three stories. Odd.
Some elected officials in the room, including Tom Rust, Chuck Caputo, David Poisson, Dave Marsden, and several Loudoun County supervisors.
It'll be interesting to see how well Gov. Kaine and George Allen represent the Obama and McCain positions on energy and the environment. Kaine is certainly close to Obama on most issues, but Allen? I mean, aren't his positions on energy and environment nearly antithetical to McCain's? Unless McCain is planning to flip-flop on mandatory global warming pollution reductions and drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. He wouldn't do that, would he?
...The Department of Energy's National Energy Technology Laboratory found that adding carbon capture to existing coal plants would increase the cost of electricity generation by 81 percent. This includes neither the rising cost of coal, nor the heightened cost of new coal plant construction, which has surged by more than 130 percent since 2000.Assuming these challenges can be met, then what? Coal will still be dirty. The American Lung Association estimates that pollution from coal-fired power plants triggers 550,000 asthma attacks and 38,000 heart attacks annually, helping to cause an estimated 24,000 Americans to die prematurely each year. Coal combustion is also the country's largest source of mercury poisoning and releases more than five dozen different types of hazardous air pollutants.
And don't tell the residents of Appalachia that coal is clean. Mountaintop removal coal mining has flattened 450 mountains and buried more than 700 miles of rivers and streams in one of the country's most beautiful regions.
So much for THAT idea! Now, is it too much to ask for our "leaders" - both Democratic and Republican - to stop talking about "clean coal," along with other Orwellian oxymorons like the clear-cutting "healthy forests" bill, the emit-MORE-pollution "clear skies initiative," or the utter idiocy that we can "drill our way out of it." Maybe it would help if companies like Dominion Power didn't sponsor forums like the one this morning and hold receptions "in honor" of Virginia' governor (out in Colorado, at the Democratic National Convention)? Hmmmm.
Sounds like Kaine is mopping the floor with Allen and then he goes off on his pro-status quo position about dirty coal. We need leaders, not followers (of Dominion or coal or oil) in this fight and towing the same old energy line just ain't going to cut it.
Maybe it's not a question of who wins this debate, it's a question of who loses less. Um... go Kaine?
For God's sake, they had him keynote the "Ethnic Rally!"
Who could they put in front of a podium? Hmmmm... Gilmore? Nah, he's probably not even going to vote for himself. Jeff Frederick - the up and coming face of the Va Republicans? Maybe Dave Albo? I doubt there would be much discussion about energy, but he'd make sure everyone got liquored up real good. And then arrested on the drive home. And then he'd represent them in court (for a rather hefty fee, of course).
Nope, Allen is about the best they can do. Which pretty much sums up the entire Republican party right now.
And, sigh, considering how weak Kaine is on energy / Global Warming, sad that he is a surrogate on energy issues ... I take this as a "Virginia" surrogate rather than an "energy expert" surrogate.
