Mark Shields:  All eyes on Sarah Palin.  This is her chance to overcome doubts.

David Brooks:  Republicans watching from behind the couch, chance we could see what Katie Couric saw.

They tried to kick her out, but here she is...professional as always.  5 minute segments, 90 seconds to respond to direct question, 2 minutes for rebuttal and followup.  Audience has promised to remain "very polite."

Here come Palin and Biden.

Palin: "Hey, can I call you Joe?"

Biden:  Pleasure to be here.  Neither the best or worst of Washington, but the past 8 years had the worst economic policies ever.  Excessive deregulation, letting Wall St. run wild.  Congress in very difficult spot.  Obama laid out 4 basic criteria - oversight, homeowners/Main St., treat taxpayers like investors, make sure CEO's don't benefit.  Fundamental disagreement between the two campaigns; we're going to focus on middle class, not just on the wealthy and corporate America.

Palin: Good barometer - go to kids' soccer game.  Fear among parents.  Did we just take a major hit.  How are we going to afford to send kids to college.  Fear of small businesses.  Economy is hurting, federal government has not provided sound oversight.  John McCain has represented reform, sounded warning bell, colleagues in Senate wouldn't listen to him.  McCain even "suspended his own campaign."

Biden:  Pleasure to be here.  Neither the best or worst of Washington, but the past 8 years had the worst economic policies ever.  Excessive deregulation, letting Wall St. run wild.  Congress in very difficult spot.  Obama laid out 4 basic criteria - oversight, homeowners/Main St., treat taxpayers like investors, make sure CEO's don't benefit.  Fundamental disagreement between the two campaigns; we're going to focus on middle class, not just on the wealthy and corporate America.

Palin: Good barometer - go to kids' soccer game.  Fear among parents.  Did we just take a major hit.  How are we going to afford to send kids to college.  Fear of small businesses.  Economy is hurting, federal government has not provided sound oversight.  John McCain has represented reform, sounded warning bell, colleagues in Senate wouldn't listen to him.  McCain even "suspended his own campaign."

Biden: Almost as many Republican friends as Democratic.  Until 2 weeks ago, John McCain was saying "fundamentals of the economy are strong."  A couple hours later, he said we were in an economic crisis.

Palin: He was talking about American work force, greatest in world. Track record of reform, team of mavericks. Just get the job done.  Obama pretty much just voted along party lines.  Put partisanship, special interests aside.  Get business done for people of America.  I think Americans are craving something new.

I mean -- it's just a throw up of memorized one-liners.  It's so obvious that there isn't an original thought in there.  

Yes, she is doing poorly, but in the big picture she hasn't fumbled the ball yet.  She just hasn't made many yards.

Wow.  Only 14 minutes in and Palin just said she won't be answering the questions that Biden or the moderator asks.

Let's hope for a 3 and out.

I'm not going to answer the questions that the moderator asks?  Huh?

She's still not doing terrible from the wingnuts point of view though.

Palin: It was the predator lenders.  Deception, greed, corruption...we need to stop that.  Let's commit ourselves to say "never again, never will be exploited again," demand strict oversight, don't get ourselves in debt - don't live outside of our means, take personal responsibility.  It's not the American peoples' fault that economy is hurting.

Biden:  Two years ago, Obama warned about sub-prime mortgage crisis.  McCain was surprised.  McCain - I'm always for cutting regulations.  We let Wall St. run wild.  McCain was all about deregulation, that Wall St. could self-regulate.  John on 20 different occasions called for more deregulation. He wants to do for the health care industry what he did to the banking industry.  Middle class needs relief now.

Palin: I want to talk about tax increases.  Voted for largest tax increases in US history. Voted 94 times to increase taxes;  that's not what we need to create jobs.  Government will have to be more efficient and live with less. We need tax relief.  Obama supported raising taxes for people making $40,000 a year.

Biden:  Absolutely not true. Obama did NOT vote to raise taxes, McCain voted the exact same way.  McCain voted 477 times to raise taxes, it's a bogus standard. She didn't answer question about deregulation.  He DID support deregulation across the board.

Palin:  I may not answer questions, but I'll talk straight to American people.  As governor, suspended state fuel tax.   McCain is known for regulations.

She sounds like an idiot on radio, but then Bush sounded like an idiot on the radio but won the hearts of America on TV.

It's a blizzard of words.

... I hope the "government" is listening tonight.

Biden: where I come from it's called fairness. The Middle class is struggling.  Under McCain's proposal, not a single break in taxes. Noone making under $250,000 a year under Obama's plan will see their taxes go up. Econ. engine of America is middle class. This is not punitive.  John wants to add $300 billion in new tax cuts for corporate America, nothing to middle class.  We have different value set. Super wealthy doesn't need more tax breaks; they'll pay no more than they did under Ronald Reagan.

Palin: You're forgetting millions of small businesses who will pay higher taxes.  You said paying higher taxes is patriotic.  Actually, government is more often the problem not the solution. Let private sector, families do it.  Obama has backwards way of growing economy. McCain has a good health care plan. $5,000 tax credit for families to purchase health care coverage. Budget neutral.  Obama's plan would mandate health care coverage, universal health care program.  Do you want health care taken over by the fed's.  Competition across state lines.  Affordability and accessibility.

Biden:  I don't know where to start.  Giving ExxonMobil an extra $4 billion a year...not fairness.  McCain pays for $5,000 tax credit by taxing as income every one of you through your employer.  Money goes straight to insurance company.  Replace $12,000 plan because 20 million of you will be dropped with a $5,000 check. The ultimate "bridge to nowhere."

Ouch. That got a laugh.

Right when we are going to bail out the financial system which McCain unregulated? In what dimension does she lives?

Regulation good, government bad!

More power than Dick Cheney.

Not a big deal, but some stumbling here and there.

I'm following this on the blog.  Did she actually say she wasn't going to respond to questions?  If so, how can this be called a debate?

"I'm not going to answer the questions the way you and the moderator may want."

When Ifill and then Biden both pointed out that she really hadn't answered the question asked (defend John McCain's record on deregulation), Palin said that she may not answer the question  he (Biden) or the moderator asked, but she's give "straight talk" to the American people.

This isn't a debate.  This is a Palin brain dump and string of empty soundbites.

What she is doing is just spouting off her talking points in whatever sequence she wants, regardless of the question asked.

Biden:  Slow down foreign aid increases. No tax cuts for Exxon Mobil, rich people. Can't slow up on energy, affordable health care.  Eliminate waste in budget.  $100 billion tax dodge to offshore...that's unpatriotic.

Palin: McCain doesn't tell one thing to one group and then turn around and tell another thing to another group. Energy plan that Obama voted for, that's what gave oil companies big tax breaks for oil companies.  I took on oil companies in Alaska.  They're not my biggest fans.  The people come first.  No big tax breaks to multinationals.  Barack Obama voted for that energy plan that I had to turn around and undo in my own area of expertise, energy.

I haven't promised much in 5 weeks.

Biden:  Barack Obama voted for an energy bill because it had real support for alternative energy.  Separate votes - Obama voted to eliminate tax breaks to oil companies, John voted against.  I agree with windfall profits tax Sarah Palin imposed in Alaska. McCain opposes windfall profits tax.  He wants to give them another $4 billion tax cut.  

Wow. It is the Palin monologue.

Palin:  Revelations about corruption and greed on Wall St.  John McCain called for reform.  We have John McCain to thank for warning people, bringing people to the table, put politics aside to fix the problem.  Make sure credit markets don't seize up.

Biden: Barack Obama pointed out two years ago that there was a sub-prime mortgage crisis. McCain said he was surprised.  With regard to bankruptcy, we should be allowing bankruptcy courts to adjust interest and principle.  That would keep people in their homes.  John McCain and the governor don't support that.

Palin: I want to talk about my record on energy.  When we talk about energy, we have to consider the need to allow this nation to become energy independent.  Need to tap into domestic resources, not rely on foreign countries, including some that don't like America.  Energy independence is key to this nation's future.

They're not even talking about energy. Why does she not answer any questions?? She did not even say anything about her bankruptcy policy.

she's in charge of the "energy"--can't you feel it.  It's "out there" in the air.

fungible! :)

I mean, we can fix global warming without addresses the causes, right?

Palin:  Alaska feels impact.  I'm not one to attribute every aspect of man's behavior to changes in the climate. I don't want to argue about the causes.  We have to clean up this planet. Encourage other countries to come along.  I formed climate change sub-cabinet. Need to become energy independent for that reason also. "All of the above" approach.

Biden: It is man made, totally.  This explains the biggest difference between us.  If you don't understand what the cause is, it's virtually impossible to come up with a solution.  The polar ice caps are melting because of man's activities.  Mccain has voted multiple times against renewables.  Obama believes in investing in nuclear, clean coal.  Export clean coal technology.  McCain believes only answer is "drill drill drill."  Drill we must, but it will take 10 years for first drop.

Palin: The chant is "drill baby drill."  People are hungry for domestic energy. Oil and gas - largest infrastructure project. You've said no to everything to provide a domestic solution.  It is safe to drill.  Nuclear, "clean coal." You said there was no such thing as "clean coal."

Biden:  My record of 25 years of supporting clean coal technology.  I was talking about exporting technology.  How do we deal with global warming? John says he's for everything,but he voted 20 times against funding alternative energy.

Palin is debating as if she were running for president. She barely ever mentions McCain.

On the other hand, my wife says that she talks about herself whenever the McCain position is indefensible.

Biden: Definitely give benefits, visitation rights, joint ownwership of property, that's only fair and what the constitution calls for.  Same consttitional benefits.

Palin: Traditional definition of marriage, one man one woman. I am tolerant of adults choosing relationships.  I have diverse family and friends.  I am tolerant.  I don't support gay marriage.  

Biden:  I do not support gay marriage.  I'm glad to hear governor say there should be no difference between gay and straight couples.

Palin:  I do not support gay marriage.

Palin: We have a good plan - surge, counterinsurgency strategy implemented by great American hero, Gen. Petraeus.  Other ticket opposed funding our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.  I respected you when you called him out on it. We have a plan for withdrawal.  We can't afford to lose in Iraq.  We're now down to pre-surge numbers.  we need to grow our military. We can't lose to al Qaeda or to Shi'a extremists.

Biden:  I didn't hear a clear plan.  Obama has a clear plan. Only odd man out is John McCain.  On the troops funding, McCain voted the same way as Obama...not going to fund troops if there's a timeline.  Obama and I believe in a timeline, shift responsibility to Iraqis.  It's time for Iraq to spend its own money, take over responsibility.  John McCain, there is no end in sight to this war.  Fundamental difference.

Palin: Your plan is a white flag of surrender.  You opposed the surge.  We'll know when conditions have been met.  You said you'd be honored to run with Sen. McCain.  You said Barack Obama was not ready to be commander in chief.  I have great respect for your family and the honor you show our military.  Obama is another story.

Biden: John McCain voted to cut off funding for the troops.  McCain voted against MRAPS because it had a timeline and he didn't likethat.  McCain and Cheney were wrong, they said we'd be greeted as liberators.  McCain was saying Sunnis and Shi'ites got along.  I love him, but he's been dead wrong. Obama's been right.

trying to dig in the "dangerous" meme, but it's not sticking.

Palin is such an idiot. I'm so glad Biden pointed out that Ahmadinejad has no say in military affairs.  

Biden:  Both very dangerous.  Iran getting a nuke would be very destabilizing.  Fundamental problem I have with John's policy, he says the central front in war on terror is in iraq.  I promise you, an attack will come from Al Qaeda planning in hills of Pakistan or Afghanistan.  We need to help that Democracy.  7,000 madrasas along that border.  We should build schools to compete for hearts and minds. We will go at Bin Laden if we have actionable intelligence.

Palin:  Both very dangerous.  Petraeus and Al Qaeda both said iraq was central front in war on terror.  Iran cannot be allowed to acquire nuclear weapons. Ahmedinejad termed Israel  "a stinking corpse."  He is not sane or stable.  Ahmedinejad, Kim Jong Il, the Castro brothers...Obama said he'd meet with them without preconditions. That's beyond naivete, that's downright dangerous.  Ahmedinejad should not be met with without preconditions.

Henry Kissinger shared with me his passion for diplomacy.  With some of these dictators who hate America - our freedoms, our respect for women's rights - can't just sit down with them as obama has said to do. Diplomacy is hard work by serious people.

Biden: That's just simply not true about barack Obama.  He did NOT say sit down with Ahmedinejad.  Theocracy controls security apparatus in Iran.  They say they have a passion for diplomacy. Our friends and allies have said to sit down and talk.  Several Republican Sec. of states.  Bush has sent a high-ranking diplomat top meet with iranians.  John McCain said he wouldn't even sit down with government of Spain, a NATO ally which has troops in Afghanistan.

Just like Bush.  Say, Nu-Cle-Ar.

This entire answer about Isreal is turning into talking points about ruffling feathers and positive change.  Blah.

Palin: Two-state solution is the answer.  That would be top of the agenda item under McCain-Palin.  Israel is our strongest ally in the region. No second Holocaust. Build our embassy in jerusalem.  Israel wants peace.  Got to be a commitment by US.

Biden: Noone in the US Senate has been a better friend of Israel than Joe Biden.  This Administration's policy has been an abject failure.  Sec. Rice is trying to turn it around in 7th or 8th year.  Bush insisted in elections on West Bank, we warned that Hamas would win.  Lebanon - we said to move NATO forces in there or hezbollah would control it.  The policy of this admin. has been an abject failure.  Iran is on the march.  We will change this policy with thoughtful, real diplomacy that knows you must back israel.

Palin: I'm encouraged to know we both love Israel.  Stop constantly looking backwards...there have been huge blunders by this administration. For a ticket that talks about change, there's too much finger pointing.  We're going to forge ahead with putting government on side of the people, put partisanship aside, McCain has been a maverick, ruffled feathers.  Change is prologue.

Biden: Past is prologue. How different will McCain's policy be than Bush's? I haven't heard.  It may be, but so far it is the same as George Bush's.  We will make significant change so once again we're the most respected nation in the world.

Does she have any idea what that means to the Arab world?

She's like a random talking point sentence generator.

How do you debate this without croutons?

Says, how can you bring change if you keep pointing fingers back at the past administration.

Biden feeds it to her.  Says you have to look back to be able to see there is no difference in McCains positions.  Says George Bush 4 times in his answer.

Palin: We use them as deterrent. Can't let Kim Jong Il or Ahmedinejad get them or proliferate.  McCain and Bush not the same on Afghanistan.  Obama - reckless comment on Afghanistan.  We're fighting terrorism, building schools and democracy.

Biden:  Afghanistan - facts matter.  Our commanding general there said today that the surge principles we used in Iraq will not work in Afghanistan.  We need more troops, government building. We spend more money in 3 weeks in Iraq than in 7 years in Afghanistan.  With regard to arms control, nuclear weapons require a nuclear arms control regime, McCain voted against comprehensive test ban treaty.  Obama came to US Senate, reached across aisle to Dick Lugar, worked to keep nukes out of hands of terrorists.  McCain opposed to extending arms control regime.

Palin: General did not say surge principles wouldn't work. The counterinsurgency strategy can work in Afghanistan.  

Biden: Our commanding general did say that. McCain said two years ago, Afghanistan succeeded. Obama said we need more troops there.

Palin doesn't make any sense and she is obviously just regurgitating talking points, but this is a big win for McCain. Count me as disappointed.

I just must not understand how the washington game works, cause you voted for the war before you voted against it.

Um can I have a vowel?  Can we take about something else for a while.  This is too hard.

Biden: Bosnia, we saved tens of thousands of lives.  I supported that, McCain initially opposed.  I said it would be a mistake to go to war with Iraq.  I said if we went to war without allies, we'd be there for a decade.  We can impose no fly zone in Darfur.  I've seen the suffering, we should rally the world to act.  Stop this genocide.

Palin: It's obvious that I'm a Washington outsider.  You voted for the war and now you say you opposed it.  Americans want straight talk, that was a war resolution. You had supported McCain's approach and opposed Obama.  We agree on Darfur.  America is in a position to help.  Alaska has a $40 billion investment fund, we moved to divest from Sudan (legislation hasn't passed yet).

Biden:  I never supported McCain on war.  McCain was saying the exact opposite, lockstep with Dick Cheney that this would be easy. His conduct of war has been absolutely wrong from the outside.

Palin: Beg to disagree. You can say what you want to say a month out.  John McCain knows how to win a war, he knows what evil is.  He will know how to implement strategies.    

He knows how to fight evil, etc.

That would counter Palin's nonsense about not looking in the past.

Biden: I would carry out Obama policies.  Help middle class. Energy policy towards independence and cleaner environment, creates 5 million new jobs. Foreign policy that ends war in iraq, goes after mission to get bin Laden and eliminate al Qaeda.  Engage allies. Reject Bush Doctrine of preemption and regime change.  This is the most important election you've ever voted in since 1932.

Palin: Heaven forbid that would ever happen.  Team of mavericks, of course we're not going to agree on everything. He has never asked me to check my opinions at the door.  I would continue putting government back on side of people. A little reality from Wasila Main Street in Washington.  Government get out of my way - create jobs or a ticket that wants to increase taxes.

Biden:  Ask people whether we're better off.  Is there any significant area where McCain and Bush differ? Work with me in my neighborhood. They get it, middle class has gotten short end.

Palin: There you again mentioning the Bush administration. Need more focus on education.  I come from house full of school teachers.  Education a little bit lax.  Increase standards.  Flexibility in No Child Left Behind. Ramp it up with education.

Article II defines the Executive.

Article I defines the power of the VP, not Article II.

A1.3 says that the VP votes in the Senate. A2.1 says that the VP is elected with the P and that the VP accepts the power of the P if the P dies, etc.; and A2.4 says that the VP can be impeached. I thought the point he was making was that the VP belongs in the Executive Branch, which I thought I heard him say was defined in A1; maybe he was saying the opposite. I'm not sure now.

Palin:  Lame attempt at a joke. Of course people know what a VP does.  I'm thankful that the constitution allows more authority for VP.  Supportive of president's policies.  Energy independence in America, reform of America, work with families for special needs.  I can't wait to get there and get to work.

Biden:  Money was left behind on NCLB. On role of VP, Barack asked me - I have history of getting things done - I'd be point man on getting things done with Congress, I'll give my best advice, independent judgment, tell him if I disagree.  I look forward to working with Barack.

Palin: Flexibility in office of VP.  I agree with Dick Cheney that VP is very flexible. I have years of experience on exec. level.

Biden: Cheney's been most dangerous VP in American history. Article 1 defines role of VP - executive branch. Primary role is support the president, give best judgment, preside over Senate when there's a tie vote. No authority relative to Congress, idea that he is part of legislative branch is a bizarre notion.

It can only help if palin ties herself to cheney, one of the most dispised men in America.

Mom, Dad, and apple pie.  GO ALASKA!!!  God bless America and no one else (insert the Palin wink;).  I'v had too much of Sarah's apple pie.  I'm going to go puke now...  

She isn't doing badly, but I can't see how anyone can look at this performance and not see she's been programmed and is rearranging talking points to best shoehorn into the dialog.

maverick.

Palin: My experience, connection to heartland of America, special needs child, health insurance.  World view that I share with John McCain. America is a nation of exceptionalism. Shining city on a hill.  We represent a perfect ideal - Democracy, tolerance, freedom, equal rights, force for good in the world.  Reform. Good team, good ticket.

Biden: I'm not going to change.  I haven't changed in 35 years.  Violence against women act, McCain voted against. I understand what it's like to be single parent.  I'm much better off now.  But I know what it's like to raise a child, I understand...people are looking for help, not more of the same.

Palin: People are looking for change. McCain has been consummate maverick, put partisanship aside when it was right to do.  McCain supported by Lieberman, Giuliani, Romney...all coming together realizing that McCain is the man to lead the next 4 years.  These are tumultous times.  Entrenched partisanship.  Change is coming.

Biden: Let's talk about maverick John Mccain. He's been a maverick on some issues, but  not on Bush's budget, health care, education, war, virtually anything that genuinely affects people around the kitchen table. He voted against assistance for heating oil.  Maverick he is not.

She actually sounded better on radio towards the end, with plenty of idiotic statements in between, but better.

kept tickling her eyes, she smiled almost non stop and winked at the camera a lot.

Seriously.  I don't know if or why they think they makes her look hommy, but it ain't working.

She's looking very vapid.  Same chipper smile no matter the issue.  

Her folksy "I'm just one of you guys" schtick turned my stomach, but for those voters who based their choice for President 4 and 8 years ago went with the guy they wanted to have a beer with, this may play well.  "Gosh, golly, I just want to go clean up Washington and shake things up."

She actually held her own (I'm sorry to say).  She still made some idiotic statements, but I didn't see or hear anything that will sink her.  The expectations were so low she would have had to start drooling to not meet or beat the expectations.  She repeated the same drivel over and over, but I think anyone who is undecided at this stage is, quite frankly, not someone who would notice that most of her stuff was string together sound bites with little substance.

Biden: Nominee for the courts.  Ideology matters.  That's why  I led fight against Judge Bork. There would have been major changes that we wouldn't like. It matters what your judicial philosophy is.

Palin:  I quasi-caved in by not vetoing budgets. There were times when I wanted to zero base budget, but I didn't have enough support. On major principle things, I haven't had to change...bring both sides together.

I can't believe that after Biden almost broke down when speaking about his family tragedy, she replied with more robotic talking points.  That's a you-tube moment: showed a stark difference between his passion and depth and her vapidness.  

Very moving.

Thats whats powering Palin.   My randon phrase generator can do better than her.

If I was a republican, I would be deeply ashamed to have her as my candidate.

more about her family......geezus

Biden:  I have been able to work across aisle on some of the most controversial issues.  Everyone's sent here for a reason. I never question people's motives.  That's the fundamental change Barack Obama and I will bring.

Palin:  Appoint people regardless of party affiliation. Walk the walk, don't just talk the talk.  Work together for greater good. Policies and proposals have to speak for themselves. Lower taxes on American workers and businesses. Make nation energy independent. Their ticket will raise taxes, hurt jobs. Clear choices on nov. 4.

Palin:  I enjoyed speaking directly to the American people. We're gonna fight for America.  Proud to be an American, fight for our freedoms - economic and national security.  Reagan said freedom is always one generation from extinction.  Only one man who has really fought for you- John McCain.

Biden:  Thank you, pleasure to meet you governor. This is the most important election in your life.  We're in a deep hole, there's a need for fundamental change.  Barack Obama and I don't measure progress on how many regulations we cut or how much money CEO's making. We measure progress on whether middle class can pay mortgage. Soldiers best equipped, get best health care.  It's all about dignity and respect. If you believe in yourself, work hard, believe in your country, you can accomplish anything.  Champ, when you get knocked down, get up.  We're ready...may god bless America, may god protect our troops.

It's way past that baby's bed time

Of course I am biased and side with Biden, but I'm not seeing any clear winner.

I noticed a few openings that Palin gave Biden to attack, yet he didn't.  Was his strategy to not attack her because she is a woman?  I don't know.  Personally, I wish he attacked her gaffes.  I think it would be sexist to give her a pass, if he did that.  

Palin did change the subject a few times, and had partial/incomplete answers.  

Joe Biden choked up when talking about his son's injuries and his wife's death so many years ago.  I don't want to politicize that - but we did see the human side of him.  I can't imagine his struggle.

Palin was every bit Biden's equal. She handled it fine. Fast paced, energetic debate. She held her own.

Mark Shields; She didn't implode.  Far cry from Katie Couric interviews. She was relentlessly colloquial.  Does it appeal?  No major missteps.  She came through it far far better than expected going in.

Brooks: The key is the colloquialisms from Palin. It either works or not. It's authentic.  With Couric, she tried to be a wonk and she's not. She mentioned McCain a lot more than Obama  mentioned Obama.

Shields:  Her willingness to cut the Bush administration looses.  It was amazing. She doesn't feel any encumbrance. I was surprised Biden didn't tie record of Bush administration to job losses.  High energy level at which both of them went. There wasn't a pause, no humor, relentless.

Brooks: High point for Biden was when he talked about his family. He seemed coached, didn't talk enough of his personality.  He choked up.

Shields: That was the view into his soul.  "I understand."  That was a genuine moment.  He WAS a single parent, he lost his wife.

Couric:  Palin avoided many questions

I was listening for specifics about how McCain-Palin would be different than Bush.  She failed to ever answer any specific question.  She missed an opportunity because there aren't any differences between Bush and McCain.

Biden was crisp tonight, he actually answered the questions.  Palin didn't answer the questions.

If they say they are change agents, continue to press for details.

What is this administration doing now that they would do differently?  They'll never tell us - they don't want to harm their base.

It looks to me like neither made a major mistake (rats, I was hoping palin would screw up).  However, with palin just giving talking points, I can't see how she and mccain were helped a whole lot. Of course I can't measure the effect of her winks and smiles from text. :)

Didn't get anything dramatic.  I think the media will eat up Palin on the facts after they have time to look at all the answers.

is not enthusiastic, but they are most defninitely relieved.

Fred Barnes says she won.

Bill Kristol didn't venture an opinion.

Kristen Powers now notes that it may have seemed to some people that she was just giving a series of stump speeches.

Brit Hume: "We journalists tend to be impressed with knowledgability and fludity. I'm not sure that is what she is trafficing in."

Mort: She's not qualified to move into the presidency right away. Biden is.

Hume: "It helps to be physically attractive, and she is. I'm not saying biden isn't."

And I thought he opposed that ;-)

Holy crap.  She must have stunk up the place!

I thought she held her own from the wingnut point of view.  Personally I thought she was totally annoying, but that's just me....and, my wife, who hates her guts. :)

I would have hammered her on that.  She is being THE SAME AS BUSH.  It is NUCLEAR.  

I just want to smack around every Republican who uses that term incorrectly.  It matters, because language involving our most important and strategic weapons should be used with care.  "Nukuler" is almost used in an intimidating way, and doesn't help reduce nuclear proliferation.

Anyways, that is one of those times I would have hammered her.

100 uncommitted voters.

Biden scored better than Palin.

A large percentage said leaning towards Obama-Biden ticket.  People loved Biden's answer on Iraq, didn't like Palin's.

Focus group:  woman said Palin connected with American people.

He claims they were split between Kerry and Bush voters, but they were a little too in favor of Palin. I smell fix.

Matthew Dowd: She survived, but it didn't change trajectory of race.

Donna Brazile: Biden was passionate. Palin did her homework. No "moose in the headlights" moments.

Matthew Dowd: Palin tried to turn a negative, the problem is that the majority of country has judged last 8 years as failure.  Tied Bush to McCain, that's a winner for Obama-Biden.

Torie Clarke: Biden was very effective, speaking directly to real people about real issues.

Brazile: Biden understood that he had to debate John McCain not Sarah Palin.  Kept saying McCain agreed with Bush, she had nothing to say, just changed the subject.

Dowd: She was in very difficult spot. She did as best she should.  That's not how American people will judge it. They want to know about next 4 years. I'm still leaning Obama-Biden and this didn't change our mind.

Clarke: I think she made some connections, probably with people she's already made connection with.  She shored up her base, not necessarily it moves the ball forward any.

Brazile: Biden knows American people are tired of this war. Palin was trying to relitigate argument about war, surge.

Biden had great line about "ultimate bridge to nowhere."

n/t

Palin did an "absolutely masterful job."

Now slamming Biden on "misrepresentations."

Wingnut World is a strange place.

I liked him better when he was pretending to be a cop, not when he is pretending to care about every day people.

They seem to be straining to make the case that Palin destroyed Biden. That speaks volumes. As the Bard might say, "Methinks they doth spin too much."

Apparently, they no longer even care about keeping up the fiction of fair and balanced.

If Fox News are not giddy, then they know that she didn't perform to what they were expecting.

"god bless ya" for watching Faux News so we don't have to! :)

Hilarious.

Can someone post the web sites where we can vote on who won?

They are all here.

Krauthammer actually, again, provides some thoughtful commentary.

"Biden won on points. No question about it. But I think Biden overdid it."

He also thinks Palin did well. On foreign affairs, "She knew what her limits of knowledge were."

"Personality, she won hands down."

"I wasn't impressed by the depth of her answers or the breadth of her knowledge, but I think she undid a lot of the damage" of the Couric interviews.

Her personallity is not my cup of tea.  

I just told my wife that if I wouldn't date a presidential candidate, then I don't want them as my president...and, i would date either Biden or Obama, in a man-date sort of way.  Palin just repulses me.  :)

He was immensely emotional when talking about his family... You can have it all, even if you're a man.

I suspect many men would love to date her if she were single.  And if that is their criteria for voting, God help us.

A lot of men are, anyway.  The low-information unibrows have that as their one and only criteria for supporting her, I'm certain of it.

I prefer Hillary's style to Palin's.  Palin seemed very stiff at points, and I was getting the sense that she had TMJ (sorry, I am channelling my inner Bill Frist).  She didn't offer anything I hadn't heard before.  She was folksy at times.  But it seemed to be all of the same talking points.

I'm surprised Gwen or Joe didn't ask her to reconcile her position on smaller government and government getting out of the way and allowing private industry to do its thing with her desire to provide more oversight for our financial markets.  Seems like if you want to cut the size of the Treasury, SEC, FDIC and other agencies, you can't have greater oversight.

Also, I'd like to point out that Fannie and Fredie are not Wall Street or close to it.  They are GSEs located in the Washington Metro.  They are not like investment banks in NYC.  And to my knowledge, they were not the primary movers in this housing market crisis.  And also what was the great insight about calling for reform at Freddie and Fannie two years ago when they were at the heighth of their accounting scandals and financial restatements?  What was the foresight there?  It's like me seeing that you have a flat tire and telling you that you need to fix that.  Wow, I'm like totally prescient!

Overwhelming majority gave the debate to Biden. 84% said she did better than expected. 60% (I think) said he did better than expected. Before the debate, 54% said Palin was not qualified to be President. After the debate, 51% said she wasn't qualified. Moved her numbers marginally.  

Palin seemed to endorse these.

Doesn't that break from Consrvative orthodoxy?

that the path to Hell is paved with good intentions.  That expansion of these benefits leads to gay marriage, which she is absolutely against eventhough she has gay family members and friends.

But Biden had some knock out blows and they aren't talking about them.

The part where he spoke about his family.

How about the part where he explained the constitution and authority granted to the Vice President?

Nothing.

And slightly more people think Palin is ready to be president. 56% from 52%. Let me repeat. 56% in a poll think she is ready to be PRESIDENT. What are they thinking?

Mort: This debate won't really change the campaign, but it removes Palin as an issue.

Kristol: Not a game changer, but an inflection point. she put him back in the game. After bailout bill, McCain can get to make his case.

(Kristol lives in an alternate reality. McCain has made his case -- the public is rejecting it)

Fred Barnes: She undid conventional wisdom.

The whole Faux reaction was just weird.

Hanity and Colmes coming on. I can't watch. Rove is first guest.

I personally found this one of the weirdest debates ever.  It was like the two people on the podium were coming to us from two different universes.  

It reminded me a little of the 11th Congressional debate in the last election when Tom Davis and Andy Hurst debated along with a third-party candidate who was a taxi driver.  He was the candidate of Gail "for Rail" Parker and basically, whatever the question, he would turn the answer toward the need for more railroads -- because that was all he knew.

Likewise, Palin ignored most of the questions and just followed her inner briefing book.  It was sad, really.  

And I was frustrated that for most of the debate neither Biden nor Gwen Ifill challenged any of the contradictory tangle of gobbledygook that spewed from her mouth.  So people may say she "won" the debate simply because she was barely challenged directly.  It will be very important now to put all of her statements side by side and see if there is the slightest thread of logic holding them all together. (For example: we just found out (!) that there's all this greed on Wall Street and we need to do something about it -- while giving out tax breaks to the rich and deregulating business.)

Then he would have been the mean, smart guy beating up the beauty queen.

They keep saying she gave money to Alaskans.  That was her job.  The Alaskans are considered owners of the oil and they get payments from the profits.  It is not HER doing it.  That was already in place.

I use to get about $1000 a year as a kid in my name (when I lived there).  It always came around Christmas so for my poor working mother, it was great.  Parents actually had to cash it.

She has nothing to do with the permanent fund.  What an absurd claim.  And anyways, I thought she was against wealth redistribution?  Why aren't we asking her if she opposes the permanent fund - since that is wealth redistribution.  If she came out against that, nobody in Alaska would vote for her.

Good point, so it is called the Permanent Fund?  And we should ask what she has done to stop the permanent fund since it is wealth redistribution in Alaska and we know her stand on wealth redistribution.  I've seen her several times speak about giving Alaskans money.  So we suck the oil out of Alaska and Alaska becomes the richest state and she is their hero.

I think the argument against it being wealth distribution is that the residents of Alaska own the land/oil, and we are leasing rights to the oil companies.

But, I think it would be interesting to hear her explanation.  

Alaskans are opposed to renewable energy - doesn't serve their cause.  When the oil dries up in Alaska, the state is dead.  It has minerals, but Alaska has also been over-fished.  Tourism would be the biggest industry.