Cut it out, boys.

I do not need to see a pissing contest here. Let's get on with it, which is defeating Boy George Allen. There is enough material in that little jerk to satisfy everyone's need to embellish their remarks with sarcasm, sneers, sly innuendoes etc. Just let's do the job.

I heard him at the Fairfax Committee meeting last month as well.  I liked his gusto and his demeanor.  Didn't always care for WHAT he had to say, but I think he is a potentially excellent candidate.

The fact that he hired Andy Resnick (it's with an "S" guys) is really, really good.  Andy knows how to get turnout of Democrats, as evidenced by the Black defeat and the Staton romp.

I'm feeling a little more hopeful about this one.

Did anyone ask Miller about his support for issuing 20K to 60K H-1B visas each year?

Did anyone ask him about his support for outsourcing?

I was at the ACDC meeting last night.  I don't disagree so much with whats been said, but he struck me as someone who was putting on a performance.  I've heard that standard politician rap before.  He did make some good points, but demographic trends and lame Republicans are really helping the Democrats in Virginia right now.  My point is that he has some good material to draw on.

He passes the initial smell test, but he has a long way to go.

The point about how he'll do outside of our blue pockets is key.  I think he'll need help from outside political dynamics.

Furthermore, why is he running?  What does he bring to this campaign?

The way he's conducted his campaign thus far has been troubling.  The way he and his supporters have presented him has been disrespectful to every Democratic voter in Virginia.  I am so not interested in who his friends are or who's coattails he's riding.  I want someone who can stand on their own two feet and slug it out with Allen.  The Democratic Party needs to decide whether it is a real political Party or a  private club with democratic window dressing.

For Lee Diamond:

Get over it.  Harris Miller is running, and (no surprise) James Webb is not. 

So please do all of us real Democrats (who will be suiting-up this summer and working hard to get our fellow Democrats into office) a big favor: Take the "draftjameswebb" site down, and accept that someone with the courage, spirit, and means wants to represent our party and our commonwealth. 

Oh, and while I'm at it, For Lowell Feld:  You replied to an earlier post (via the poll on this website) that you would support Miller if Webb did not choose to run.  Now I read that you won't support Miller, that you are too upset, etc.  Well, which is it?

Lee & Lowell:  The only candidate that you will ever find that will agree 100% with your beliefs will be you and only you.  This is an imperfect world, with imperfect people.  So if you are not willing to run for office, then jump in and support those democrats who chose to run for higher office.  Otherwise, go to the sidelines and take a seat on the bench.

I am not going to stay on the sidelines--there is too much at stake.  I've already sent a contribution to Miller for Senate, and I have pledged volunteer hours throughout the summer and fall.  So what do you say, let's all work together and help Harris Miller beat George Allen! 

If I help Harris Miller and he outsources my job to India, then what?

I say we should ask questions first, not later. Miller was the head of a major IT lobbying group. Brinking in low-paid immigrant computer programmers, and sending work abroad were Miller's major activities.

Was it all a lie? Miller didn't really believe in outsourcing or H1-B visas?

For any intolerant people here, it is my understanding that this is a progressive blog where an exchange of views is encouraged.

Bill Felmlee:  Your insulting non-response is noted.  It does not even deserve acknowledgement, but you prove the point that nasty, hostile people are all over the political spectrum.  I didn't really say anything that new.  It is only February.  You should get a grip on yourself.

Much of the problem is with the Party structure.  Why not more delegate candidates?  Why not more support for down ballot candidates such as Creigh Deeds? etc.

Trends in NOVA are positive, but that is not enough for statewide success.  It should not be necessary to remind people that Warner and Kaine ran with impressive backgrounds and public records.  Warner spent a lot of time building his public reputation.

an "insultng non-response?"

sounds like yet another blogger who can't take what he dishes out. but hey, good luck taking over the government from cyberspace, guys.

Lee,

You wrote: "For any intolerant people here, it is my understanding that this is a progressive blog where an exchange of views is encouraged."

True, but you are working under false colors.  You are directly associated with the "draftjameswebb" site, are you not?

You also wrote (from earlier at 1:18pm): "The way he’s (Miller) conducted his campaign thus far has been troubling. The way he and his supporters have presented him has been disrespectful to every Democratic voter in Virginia. I am so not interested in who his friends are or who’s coattails he’s riding. I want someone who can stand on their own two feet and slug it out with Allen. The Democratic Party needs to decide whether it is a real political Party or a private club with democratic window dressing."

Your opinion would be more credible if you stated who/what you have been associated with.  Do not get me wrong, I have no problem with your website or the notion of James Webb running for Senate.  But your previous statement is ironic, considering YOU have been a somewhat secret window dressing for the "draft James Webb" movement.  And you want others to "stand on their own two feet?"

I'm not trying to insult you, but I am calling you out.  Peace. 

Dan:

I was referencing Lee's comment at 1:18, and his motivation(s).

And you're right, Harris Miller has a long way to go.  It will be a tough summer and fall.

As I've said before, Harris Miller may surprise us.  I hope he surprises George Allen.

I did not like the tone of Bill's original comment and I thought it appropriate to respond to the  suggestion that my comments put me in the category of someone who is not a Democrat.  Based on his second go round, we now merely have a disagreement.  Bill, nice to meet you.

I've been as active a Democrat as anybody else.  That is really, really all I need to say about that.  My position is that Webb's candidacy was the best thing for the Democratic Party, especially in a state such as Va.  We still live in a reddish state even though trends are coming our way.  Webb would help moves things along considerably.  Again, this is a forum and I am going to say what I think.  I'm not someone who postures, but I'm not going to hold back because someone might not like it.  It is long past time that thoughtful, pragmatic grassroots activists asserted themselves because our Party has often not been well served by the people making decisions.

My analysis  is sincere.  You should see the DraftWebb supporter list.  There are plenty of good Democrats on it.  Everybody actively behind DraftWebb is a progressive.  We made a strategic choice.  Many, many people agreed with us.

When a candidate enters a race and the first thing said is vote for me because so and so says that you should, something is wrong.  Friends, this is insulting.  He will have to find a way to clean up his mess.  I stand by my original comments about the Party.

This is what I really want to get at.  I'm sorry if this breaks any rules, but this post by "Kathryn in Blacksburg" really needs to be part of this discussion. I cut&pasted this from a Webb string on RK:

Unfortunately, what typically happens in Virginia is that the power brokers close ranks around a candidate before we ever know what hit us. So our “debate” is moot. It’s so much like the old Scoop Jackson machine from Washington state. I think all fielded candidates should be contested, no matter how good they appear. It’s only as the spring unfolds that we really know enough about many candidates. I am reminded that during the presidential primary of 04, voters jumped all over the place and landed somewhere entirely different that it looked just a month-plus earlier. So Webnb’s alrady gone when few voters even got to learn anything about him. And I think that eventually Webb would have persuaded a lot of folks, and done so more compellingly than Harris Miller. I am still hoping for one more challenger. And, as someone said in an earlier comment, now that we see the result of yesterday’s special election (and how well Tim did last night), maybe Webb would reconsider. But I am willing to bet that the monied elite in the party just weren’t going to bakc someone else when they had an insider as al alternative. If Miller really is a place holder, then the state party needs shaking up.

I think some people should show a little more restraint.  I don't like being told to keep quiet.  I can't see what is written here as that influential anyway.

I am not going to be run over any longer by losing Democrats.  I expect Democrats to think for themselves.  I expect Democrats who run for office to have more to offer than friends and a wallet.

I agree with Lee 100%.  Democrats are also supposed to be "democrats," small "d."  Anyway, the bottom line is that I do not appreciate bullies and people telling me, essentially, to "shut the f*** up." Or, that "the whole party is lining up behind Candidate X, so you'd better support him!"  Frankly, all that does is make me really angry.

Lowell,

Today your wrote, "Seriously, who the hell are YOU?!?"

Well, I am a reader of your blogs.  Nothing more, nothing less.  As I told you in person in early November, I was thankful for all of your effort and enthusiasm over Tim Kaine; you made a difference.  I also wished you well, and I hoped that you would continue to blog. 

So please, take a chill pill and put on some thicker skin.  This argument we are having is NOTHING compared to what the George Allen machine will be throwing at you and other Virginia blog sites come summer and fall. 

So I've read your blog(s) just about every day, regardless of whether I agree or disagree.  You offer an interesting perspective.  When you became enthusiastic about Webb (and at points overzealous), I repected your intentions but also asked you to reconsider another interview with Miller (an opportunity to blog and discuss, "on the record").

On January 18th, you replied to me: "Bill: I met with Mr. Miller stricly OFF THE RECORD, at his request, not mine (I had wanted to meet ON THE RECORD, but he declined). Having said all that, I would of course give Mr. Miller a fair shake if he agreed to an interview with me. I would also support him (and opposed Allen, obviously) if he turned out to be the Democratic nominee for Senate in Virginia this year."

And today you wrote (from above): "I have strong reservations about a Miller candidacy based on my off-the-record conversation with him, and also with my understanding of how he got to be the Democratic establishment’s pick."

And today Lee wrote (from above): The way he’s (Miller) conducted his campaign thus far has been troubling. The way he and his supporters have presented him has been disrespectful to every Democratic voter in Virginia."

And today Lee also wrote (from above): "When a candidate enters a race and the first thing said is vote for me (Miller) because so and so says that you should, something is wrong."

Did Miller say that directly to Lee, or through you (or someone else).  In other words, where did Lee get that from?

Do you still plan to give Miller a "fair shake" with an on-the-record interview?  If not, then why?

As far as Lee, I respect his opinion.  However, I do not believe it is fair for bloggers and readers to read his opinion when there is no disclosure that he (especially when he  questions Miller) ran the "draftjameswebb" campaign.  What if I were to anonymously put up a website, "draft Lowell Feld for Senate," but openly question Miller's motives, credentials, etc.?  That would be wrong, especially if I kept the website up.  You should all take a cue from Jerome Armstrong on this one.  Don't be anonymous when you are taking a stand by starting a website/movement.  And disclose.  After all, we're not republicans.

With all due respect to you Lowell, what are you going to do?  Are you going to fight for this party and meet with Miller to (try and) find common ground?  No one is telling you to shut up -- but are you going sit this one out?

Hey Guys -- IT IS STILL FEBRUARY!  COOL IT (a little anyway).

At least Harris Miller has the guts to put himself forward as a Democratic opponent to Allen.  I agree that the grassroots need to learn more about Mr. Miller.  He's welcome in Scott County anytime.  By the way our Committee meetings are at 6:30 p.m. on the third Monday of each month. Mr. Miller come on down and see the Great Southwest.  I'm sure Brian would help arrange a meet & Greet in Dickenson County.

Where are the candidates to challenge the Republican Congressmen.  Every Republican must have an opponent come June.  YOU CAN'T WIN IF NOBODY IS ON THE BALLOT!

Let's all unite behind democrats and work our Butts off to Defeat every Republican in the COmmonwealth.

Bill:  I spend most of my time thinking about how we get Democrats elected and organizing to get it done.  Over the years, the Democratic Party of Virginia has let us down so much that we probably should be furious.  I am, however, trying to have a rational discussion and make my points clearly.  I take a back seat to no person in my efforts to help the Democratic Party.

The following is not sour grapes.  It should be discussed because that old saw about just fall into line, support the Party, etc is a ticket for more losing.  Our national leadership ran a bad campaign in '02, '04 and now the DSCC and state leaders have failed to go outside the old boys network in pursuit of the strongest candidate to take on Allen.

The things I brought up were not from blogs or from Lowell.  They came from the initial story about Harris Miller when he was on WTOP news radio and then the AP story.  We are talking about Harris Miller's message when he started his campaign:  Vote for me because Mark Warner told you to do it.

Strategically, I think it is pretty difficult to argue that here in Virginia a former Republican Secy of the Navy who is now disillusioned with the Republican Party is NOT the best candidate to run against George Allen.  Jim Webb is a guy who has criticized Bush's foreign policy in very strong terms.  This is also a guy who is widely respected across the political spectrum for his integrity.  In 1994 (whiile still a Republican) he stood with Chuck Robb when Oliver North LIED about Robb's combat record in Vietnam.  Does that sound familiar?  Just recently, he defended critics of the war, once again brave soldiers, against criticism from the Bush thugs.

We have had good candidates and bad candidates in Va just like anywhere.  Our good candidates have been highly qualified.  They've had strong public service records.  Unfortunately, the statewide folks didn't do enough to help us strengthen the Democratic Party.  Kaine seems to be moving in a more positive direction on that score.

I want to win elections.  I want candidates who will genuinely excite people.  If such a person is available, it is the obligation of the Democratic leadership to go after such a person and help him or her.  Miller and the people behind him do not respect Democratic voters.  They do not respect Democratic activists.

Lee Diamond, you're a silly billy gumdrops:

"I think some people should show a little more restraint. I don’t like being told to keep quiet."

Seems to me that your second sentence directly contradicts your first one. Which is about par for the course, I suppose. Wacky!

Lowell, Can't you find us some real critics?  What is going on here?  Magic Donkey, we're trying to bring you a winning candidate.  I hope you'll learn to love us.  All apologies will be accepted.

Bill:  I've said a million times that I would be happy to do an "on-the-record" interview with Harris Miller. I even posted a list of 10 questions for him to answer.  Also, Miller promised me he would do such an interview, prior to our "off the record" meeting a month ago.  So what happened?  Good question. Chirp. Chirp. Chirp. (sounds of crickets and silence).

Will I "sit this one out?"  Highly doubtful.  At the minimum, I'll attack Allen for being the pathetic Senator that he is.  At the most, if Webb runs, I'll do everything I can to help him win.

Bill:  I have no problem with you or anyone else supporting Harris Miller.  Personally, I strongly support(ed) Webb, and it's difficult to just switch over to Miller.  Also, I have strong reservations about a Milier candidacy based on my off-the-record conversation with him, and also with my understanding of how he got to be the Democratic establishment's pick. Furthermore, as a Progressive, I don't agree with Miller on several key political issues.  Finally, I don't see how Miller's going to defeat Allen, but I hope I'm wrong on that one, assuming Miller's the Democratic nominee.  The bottom line is that I will probably end up voting for Miller, but don't see how I could do any more than that - besides attack Allen, of course - in good conscience.

Now, to your sharp-edged and combative comments: what's all this "calling people out" crap, especially my good friend and super-hard-working/loyal Democrat?  I REALLY don't appreciate that.  Also, what's with the aggressiveness and combativeness in general?  Do you really think that's going to win me over to your preferred candidate?  Not! And what's with all the dripping condescension: "The only candidate that you will ever find that will agree 100% with your beliefs will be you and only you. This is an imperfect world, with imperfect people. So if you are not willing to run for office, then jump in and support those democrats who chose to run for higher office. Otherwise, go to the sidelines and take a seat on the bench."

Spare me.  I'm not 12 years old, you're not my father, I do NOT plan to "take a seat on the bench" (how arrogant!), and I certainly do not plan to listen to these mini-lectures by you.  Seriously, who the hell are YOU?!?  Do you think I'm an idiot or something, that I don't know the world's imperfect, blah blah blah?  Do you think I need you to explain this to me?  Hey, here's a thought: why don't you just cut the sanctimonious, condescending bullshit and maybe we can have a conversation. Or not.

Bring on the primary!!!!