Thelma Drake Far More Qualified Than Sarah Palin

By: Lowell
Published On: 8/30/2008 3:08:21 PM

I thought I'd start a series on Republican elected women who would be more qualified to serve as Vice President of the United States than Sarah Palin. Remember, Palin served for two terms on the Wasilla, Alaska (population: 5,469) town council, served as mayor of Wasilla for 6 years, and has now been governor of Alaska - population, 683,478 - about 20 months.  She has essentially ZERO foreign policy experience and essentially ZERO national experience. In fact, the population of Wasilla is just one-fifth the population of the University of Virginia (26,000 students and faculty).  

Based on those criteria, there are hundreds (if not thousands) of Republican elected women who would be more qualified as VP than Sarah Palin. For instance, let's take Thelma Drake (note: I'm not looking at ideology here, just at qualifications - relevant experience, level of responsibility, etc.).

*Drake served in the Virginia House of Delegates for nine years as a representative of the 87th District.  There are 100 House of Delegates districts in Virginia, each with approximately 70,000 people.  That's around 14 times the population of Wasilla, where Sarah Palin was mayor for 6 years.

*Drake has served in Congress since January 2005.  That's 44 months, twice as long as Sarah Palin has served as governor of Alaska.

*Each congressional district in Virginia has about 700,000 people in it, slightly larger than the population of Alaska.

*In the House, Drake has focused on national security and veterans' issues, serving on the Armed Services Committee and Transportation & Infrastructure Committee.  That's infinitely more national security experience than Sarah Palin has (actually, Palin has none).

In sum, Thelma Drake would have been a FAR more qualified pick as John McCain's running mate than Sarah Palin.  To be continued...


Comments



Mrs. Butterworth more experienced (hereinva - 8/30/2008 3:28:03 PM)
Mrs. Butterworth has over 40 years of experience...
(as a trademarked bottle of syrup but, who pays attention to those details anyways?)


There you go again... (Bubby - 8/30/2008 3:58:44 PM)
With that stupid "reasoned judgment" thing.

Here were the criteria:

1) MILFy good looks.
2) "conservative christian"
3) She's not old
4) Karl Rove liked her
5) Believes human-caused Global Warming is a hoax
6) Doesn't have an opinion about Iraq
7) Can bait a trotlne
8) She's AnnCoulterV2,0
9) She's killed a moose

So as you can see, Sarah Palin is the perfect Commander in Chief for the 2nd Coming.  Bring her on!



MILFy good looks? (ub40fan - 8/30/2008 7:42:15 PM)
Why yes I agree .... this is a very attractive woman. Her whole family is attractive. And in a very Alaskan way, kind of frontier nuts. You've got to like that! In many ways an inspired choice by a guy who has signaled he's desperate.

Read this POLITICO analysis:

http://www.politico.com/news/s...

It's on the mark and says volumes about where this election stands.

Gov. Palin is not Ann Coulter V2. If she was I'd have to break out the frickin hammer and stake ... and figure out how to kill the vampire bitch with all those secret service types taking aim.

No she's a Hockey Mom who happens to be Governor of Alaska and John McCain's campaign just got on the highway to nowhere .... without an effective bridge to the disenfranchised Hillary Clinton female voter types.



meanwhile Glenn Nye is more qualified than Drake to represent the future in VA-02 (Shawn - 8/30/2008 4:07:12 PM)
and on November 4th voters in Virginia's 2nd will be able to replace Bush's rubber stamp Thelma with Glenn Nye


not even most qualified Rep woman from AK (teacherken - 8/30/2008 5:19:23 PM)
Lisa Murkowski, Sen from Alaska, from Wikipedia:
She became a member of the Alaska Bar Association in 1987. She was an attorney in Anchorage, Alaska from 1985 to 1998. She also served, from 1990 to 1991, on the mayor's task force on the homeless.

In 1998, she was elected to the Alaska House of Representatives and served as House Majority Leader for the 2003-2004 session. Murkowski sat on the Alaska Commission on Post Secondary Education and chaired both the Labor and Commerce and the Military and Veterans Affairs Committees. In 1999 she introduced legislation establishing a Joint Armed Services Committee.

And btw, Palin got angry because she wanted the appointment as US Senator.

Oh, and perhaps we should look no further than her home town of Wasilla, which has also produced Lyda Green, the President of the Alaska State Senate, and I quote from her official biography:

Alaska State Senate: 1995 - present
Co-Chair, Finance Committee: 2003 - present
Chair, Health, Education & Social Services
    Committee: 1995 - 1996, 2001 - 2002
Chair, State Affairs Committee: 1997 - 1998
Vice-Chair, Health, Education & Social Services
    Committee: 2003 - 2004
Vice-Chair, State Affairs Committee: 1999 - 2000
Vice-Chair, Resources Committee: 1997 - 1998
Vice-Chair, Judiciary Committee: 1995 - 1996
Administrative Regulation Review Joint Committee:
    2001 - 2004
Legislative Budget & Audit Joint Committee:
    2003 - present
Select Committee on Legislative Ethics:
    2003 - 2004
State/Federal Research & Development Committee:
    2001 - 2004
Health, Education & Social Services Committee:
    1997 - 1998, 2003 - present
Finance Committee: 1999 - 2002
Resources Committee: 1999 - 2000
Legislative Council Joint Committee: 1997 - 1998
Transportation Committee: 1995 - 1998
Finance Subcommittees:
  - Chair, Community & Economic Development:
    1999 - 2000
  - Chair, Corrections: 2003 - present
  - Chair, Court System: 2003 - present
  - Chair, Governor's Office: 2003 - 2004
  - Chair, Health & Social Services: 2001 - present
  - Chair, Labor: 1999 - 2000
  - Chair, Legislature: 2003 - 2004
  - Chair, Transportation and Public
    Facilities: 2005 - present
  - Vice-Chair, Public Safety: 2001 - 2002
  - Administration: 1997 - 2000
  - Court System: 1995 - 1996
  - Education: 1995 - 1996
  - Labor: 1997 - 1998
  - Natural Resources: 1997 - 1998
  - University of Alaska: 2001 - present
Matanuska Susitna Caucus: 1995 - 2000

Political and Government Positions:
Matanuska-Susitna Caucus: 1999 - 2000
Alaska Seafood Marketing Institute: 1997
Energy Council: 1997
Legislative Management: 1997
Reapportionment Task Force: 1997
Governor's Council on Disabilities and Special
    Education: 1991 - 1994
Department of Education Special Education
    Regulations Task Force: 1993 - 1994

And yes, this is the woman whom the radio host described as a bitch and a cancer (she is a cancer survivor) and Palin just laughed - and there is tape.



I posted the tape (Lowell - 8/30/2008 5:21:36 PM)
earlier today.


As a more serious choice (Randy Klear - 8/30/2008 5:24:59 PM)
I wondered a while back about women who might be McCain's running mates and came up with two who, on paper at least, looked like they might meet his needs as a Republican -- Rep. Deborah Pryce of Ohio and former Rep. Melissa Hart of Pennsylvania.

They're both from battleground states, and both have some leadership experience in the House GOP caucus. Pryce was chair of the House Republican Conference for four years, making her the 4th-highest ranking House Republican. She's retiring this year because her district is turning blue, in part due to her association with the likes of Jack Abramoff and Bob Ney.

Hart was a protege of John Boehner and was being groomed for a leadership spot until she lost her seat to Jason Altmire in a 2006 upset. She's trying to win it back from him this year.

Personally I'm glad to see McCain defending Alaska with his pick rather than making an aggressive move in a larger state. I think it bodes well for us.



# of more qualified Repub women is astronomical (teacherken - 8/30/2008 5:41:18 PM)
US Senators:  Liddy Dole, Kay Bailey Hutchison, Olympia Snowe, Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski

US House Members:

Judy Biggert of IL since 1998

Marsha Blackburn of TN since 2002

Mary Bono Mack of CA since special election in 1998

Ginny Brown-Waite of FL since 2002
she was previously a County Commissioner, State senator and Senate President Pro Tempore

Shelley Moore Capito of WV since 2000

Governors:
Linda Lingle of HA, elected 2002
Jodi Rell of CT, who took office in 2004, previously LT Gov

or how about former NJ Governor Christine Todd Whitman, elected 1994, serving until 2001 when she became head of EPA under Bush

methinks there will be a lot of commentary on other, more qualified women, who were passed over.



Historians: Palin "least experienced, least credentialed" (Lowell - 8/30/2008 5:35:02 PM)
VP pick for a major party "in the modern era." See here for more:

John McCain was aiming to make history with his pick of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, and historians say he succeeded.

Presidential scholars say she appears to be the least experienced, least credentialed person to join a major-party ticket in the modern era.

So unconventional was McCain's choice that it left students of the presidency literally "stunned," in the words of Joel Goldstein, a St. Louis University law professor and scholar of the vice presidency. "Being governor of a small state for less than two years is not consistent with the normal criteria for determining who's of presidential caliber," said Goldstein.

"I think she is the most inexperienced person on a major party ticket in modern history," said presidential historian Matthew Dallek.

That includes Spiro T. Agnew, Richard Nixon's first vice president, who was governor of a medium-sized state, Maryland, for two years, and before that, executive of suburban Baltimore County, the expansive jurisdiction that borders and exceeds in population the city of Baltimore.

It also includes George H.W. Bush's vice president, Indiana Sen. Dan Quayle, who had served in the House and Senate for 12 years before taking office. And it also includes New York Rep. Geraldine Ferraro, who served three terms in the House before Walter Mondale chose her in 1984 as the first woman candidate on a major party ticket...



So if I understand this (Indy4all - 8/30/2008 7:12:17 PM)
Ross Perot who ran for President with zilch experience got exactly how much of the vote? Does this line in the end really matter anymore. It truly is the "cult of personality" and branding these days I guess. On paper and voting records many who ran for the nomination were virtually identical; but it was the backstories that were quite different. Whose backstory was more inspiring; Obama or Clinton? I will take Dem or rep Governors of any state in the Union over those who live and breathe the Senate. Whats worse a Gov you never heard of or a Senator whose been in for like decades at the national level and have never heard of?


There's a difference (Pain - 8/30/2008 7:26:20 PM)

Running for President and letting the people decide is much different that a person who has been elected to then choose someone with little/no experience as a running mate without the people having a say.

McCain/Gumby 2008.



Well (Indy4all - 8/30/2008 7:30:45 PM)
I guiess we could go back to where the guy who finished second automatically became the VP selection. I guees it would be Obama/Clinton vs. McCain/Huckabee....god save us!!!


Agreed! (JPTERP - 8/30/2008 8:10:33 PM)
This is absolutely true that political experience is overrated.  You could point to Perot -- even better examples would be Eisenhower and Lincoln.  Both the Roosevelts had a little experience in government, but not much in the way of elected office.

Having said that, I'd apply a different weight to the non-political experience gained from being the commander of a major military force, or even running a huge company (with a greater population than the city of Wassila).

I'd say that being mayor of Wassila is probably more relevant experience than time as a sports TV anchor, or a beauty queen -- at least at a policy level (the sports TV anchor and beauty queen roles though probably have a lot of value in terms of the campaigning side of politics -- not so much in terms of governance).

Based on the job description of the Wassila mayor though, I suspect that Obama's community organizing experience two decades ago was probably better preparation for the presidency than the kind of decisions that the mayor might have undertaken.  Based on those short-stints too, I'd say that Obama's move to get asbestos removed from a public housing complex is probably a better demonstration of skills than the fiasco associated with the sports complex that unfolded during Palin's mayoralship.

Some of the reports from her home state have been pretty scathing.

McCain would have been better off even going with Fiorina -- someone who managed a large company and had some international experience (granted she left under her own cloud).  Hutchinson, Snowe, et al would have been even better picks from an experience perspective.    



Tell that to Doug Wilder in Richmond (Indy4all - 8/30/2008 9:52:32 PM)


Tell what . . . (JPTERP - 8/30/2008 11:10:52 PM)
to Doug Wilder?  Please spell that one out.


Organizing issue (Indy4all - 8/30/2008 11:24:49 PM)
I think the CNN Special "Obama Revealed" just spelled out the real myths behind this organizing period and to state that that was better preparation than being a mayor is misplaced. Obama has Jones in the IL legislature to thank for his quick elevation and opportunties.
The point to Wilder is he has always described his work as a Mayor as more daunting a task than being Governor. You see, the lower you go down the more responsibility and accountability you have....as in daily. What kind of real accountability does a Senator have on a daily basis in terms of his/her constituents.

Look at New orleans right now. Whose accountable? The mayor primarily then Gov. Jingle. And the Senators from LA?
Hardly any at all. See the point. Mayor of Main Sreet USA is harder than people give it credit for because it is predominately held by average Joes and Janes and nopt career oriented politicians.



Interesting point . . . (JPTERP - 8/31/2008 12:33:17 AM)
Mayor of a big city would strike me as valuable political experience.  

It still does nothing in terms of foreign policy work, which is a major part of the job of president, but as far as executive experience goes I'm sure that it would help.

On the other hand, if we were to look at the most successful Virginia Governor in recent years, I suspect both of us would agree that the guy who had his training in business, not politics, accomplished the most and left the state in the best condition possible.  I'm not sure if those skills would translate to the top level -- although I certainly would have been more than willing to roll the dice on Warner as president.  I think we'd both agree that he's earned the shot based on a solid record in business and as Governor -- even without political experience in a smaller arena.

As far as Obama's opportunities in the Illinois legislature go -- and beyond -- his success cannot be entirely attributed to the top party leader in Illinois.  Obama had built connections in the state for the better part of ten years -- he played an instrumental role in a major voter registration effort in 1992 which almost certainly helped him establish a name in political circles.  He was able to win support downstate based on friendships and good working relationships that he'd established with fellow legislators (both Democrats and Republicans).  He's had some luck, but he's also created opportunities.

Even this year -- his focus on organization in caucus states -- getting offices and staff in place months in advance of elections; combined with his ability to recognize the importance of small dollar donations -- helped him to overcome some significant disadvantages against a very strong opponent.

To return to the original point -- mayor of a small town is important work.  At the same time, I want to have leaders at the highest office who have spent some real time grappling with the big issues.  People might have laughed off the fact that Bush didn't know who the president of Pakistan was in 2000, but in hindsight, it would have been valuable if he knew a lot more about the region and the players at work in the region.  

There's a secondary issue here too about having one foot in the Capitol city.  A president who is too much of an outsider, and largely reliant on advisers is a dangerous option in my view.  One of the virtues of the Obama-Biden ticket is that both have some connection to the federal bureacracy; Biden should be able to help Obama navigate some of the corridors of power if needed -- if something happens to Obama, Biden will be able to step right in.

In the case of McCain-Palin, there are no assurances along those lines.  Palin may bring some short-term political value to the ticket, but at a policy level she's dangerously unprepared, and not sufficiently plugged in.  I can't underscore just how reckless McCain's choice is.  



Outstanding Points (Indy4all - 8/31/2008 10:47:43 AM)
An Independent made an outstanding arguement this morning over coffee regarding Obama. Why not let him use his abilities in the Senate? The leadership in the Democrat Congress is not getting any younger. Ala Ted Kennedy. Think twelve years out. If Obama were to be President, in four years or eight years he would be out, right? Would he go back to the Senate? No. He would become a Clinton or a Carter and younger/elder statesman...a mouth piece going on speaking tours. The agruement is compelling for me b/c I find Obama very inspirational. Congress needs visionaries not partisans and if Obama is willing to be bipartisan he could be more effective and for longer in Congress. Afterall, there is no real guarantee that in four years the country will not suffer another 1994 like after Clinton's election and flip Congress again whereby potentially making is second term a lame duck. IE Bush second term since 2006--nothing accomplished by either Exec or Legislature.
His young and could be a game changer in Congress for decades. Biden has been there for 30+ years and there are many other Dems like Byrd etc that lets face it are not getting any younger. It was a big picture arguement I guess but again I am seeing the point. I am not saying that the towel should be thrown in on Obama based on this but even if Obama loses there could be some silver lining. He is such an outstanding American figure I think that could/should transcend politics if he so chooses.  


Teddy R had a lot of experience in Government (teacherken - 8/30/2008 10:39:48 PM)
including in the State legislature, as Police Commissioner of NY, as a member of the US Civil Service Commission, as Deputy Sec of the Navy, and briefly as Governor of NY -  far more than Palin if you are trying to make a comparison, and far more significant positions.  Before he resigned as asst secnav, he is the one who sent Dewey's fleet out so that it was actually in position for the Battle of Manila Bay.

And of course, there was the little thing called San Juan Hill, for which he was nominated for the Medal of Honor, which was disapproved perhaps because of his criticism of how the war was fought (he received the medal posthumously in 2001).

Roosevelt was nominated as VP in 1900.  He had first entered pulbic service in 1881.   While his public service was not continuous, that certainly qualifies as quite a bit more than a little.



Understood. (JPTERP - 8/31/2008 12:46:18 AM)
All fair points.  My point speaks more to those who discount Obama's time in the state legislature as experience that doesn't really count.  

(e.g. Teddy Roosevelt's only "serious" political experience was as Governor and Vice President -- those other 14 years don't count for anything.  I should add that's not my view, just a reflection of one standard that's been thrown around).

Teddy Roosevelt's work in other areas of government -- aside from elected office -- also weighs in the balance when considering his experience.  



FDR had a great deal of experience as well (aznew - 8/31/2008 12:09:26 PM)
He had time as a state senator, assistant secretary of the Navy and a term as Governor of New York, at the time the most populous state in the country that contained both rural and the most urbanized area in America, as opposed to Alaska, the smallest state in the Union.

More importantly, by the time FDR ran in 1932, he had been steeped in national politics for more than a decade, including a place on the 1920 ticket as VP, and giving the nominating speeches for Al Smith in 1924 and 1928 (at the time the most significant convention speech).

So, by the time FDR ran, the American people had an opportunity to get to know him a bit.



FDR was first elected to state Senate (Lowell - 8/31/2008 12:21:29 PM)
in 1910.  He was appointed Assistant Secretary of the Navy in 1913, founding the US Navy Reserve among other things.  During World War I, he visited France and Britain (in 1918), meeting Winston Churchill for the first time.  In 1920, FDR ran for VP on the ticket with James Cox, which lost to Warren Harding. FDR served as governor of New York from 1929 to 1932, when he was elected president.

Those are impressive credentials by just about any standard.



Did you see the update? (zztop - 8/30/2008 9:41:49 PM)
Update:  After reading this article, the McCain campaign issued the following statement: "The authors quote four scholars attacking Gov. Palin's fitness for the office of Vice President. Among them, David Kennedy is a maxed out Obama donor, Joel Goldstein is also an Obama donor, and Doris Kearns Goodwin has donated exclusively to Democrats this cycle. Finally, Matthew Dallek is a former speech writer for Dick Gephardt. This is not a story about scholars questioning Governor Palin's credentials so much as partisan Democrats who would find a reason to disqualify or discount any nominee put forward by Senator McCain."

There's more.  Joel Goldstein is a big Dem donor (look at up at the FEC site), not just an Obama donor.  Dallek also was a speechwriter for Kennard, the Dem who chaired the FCC under Clinton. Of course Kearns' reputation was heavily damaged by charges that she was a serial plagiarist, which you can read about at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D...

In the end, it will be what the people think, not our jawing here, but here's what Zogby has right now:

http://www.zogby.com/news/Read...

Brash McCain pick of AK Gov. Palin neutralizes historic Obama speech, stunts the Dems' convention bounce

UTICA, New York - Republican John McCain's surprise announcement Friday of Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate - some 16 hours after Democrat Barack Obama's historic speech accepting his party's presidential nomination -  has possibly stunted any Obama convention bump, the latest Zogby Interactive flash poll of the race shows.

The latest nationwide survey, begun Friday afternoon after the McCain announcement of Palin as running mate and completed mid-afternoon today, shows McCain/Palin at 47%, compared to 45% support for Obama/Biden.

In other words, the race is a dead heat.

The interactive online Zogby survey shows that both Obama and McCain have solidified the support among their own parties - Obama won 86% support of Democrats and McCain 89% of Republicans in a two-way head-to-head poll question not including the running mates. When Biden and Palin are added to the mix, Obama's Democratic support remains at 86%, while McCain's increases to 92%.

Overall, 52% said the selection of Palin as the GOP vice presidential nominee helps the Republican ticket, compared to 29% who said it hurt.

In the end the voters will decide.

But the writers of that Politico article should be ashamed.

Finally, one of the great threats to our nation is our growing national debt.  Palin and McCain have very good reputations at opposing earmarks.  You'll find many liberal federal workers who share the sentiment that much of our government is nothing but an unproductive money pit.  I am not talking from newsbites, but from actual experience, and having deep conversations with people from other agencies.  It makes sense to have a VP who will specialize in reducing domestic waste.

I think the demonizing of Palin will backfire.  

As for the comment below that she is disliked in Alaska -- she has had approval ratings between 80 and 90 %.  The GOP establishment up there hates her.  She just backed the candidate who ran against Don Young.  She's gotten other Republicans up on ethics charges.

It's also time to sit back and let facts come out slowly.  There is incontrovertible evidence that the state trooper she went after (here sister's ex-husband) tased their son when he was 10 or 11, drank on the job, and allegations that he threatened to kill Palin's (and her sister's) father when the father was going to hire a lawyer to represent his daughter against a guy who seems like he was a domestic abuser.  (He's now been through 4 wives at the age of 35.)

And finally, finally, how long was Obama in office when he announced for the presidency?  150 days I think I've read.  And someone at MyDD did a study showing that the IL legislature is a part-time job, meeting typically about 60 days a year.

 



so you are quoting the same John Zogbhy (teacherken - 8/30/2008 10:40:40 PM)
who announced that Obama would win the CA primary by 10%?  


A couple things . . . (JPTERP - 8/30/2008 11:13:32 PM)
1. The Democratic numbers -- and in some of the swing states -- are larger than the GOP registration numbers.  92 percent of a smaller group compared to 86 percent of a larger one could be a 50-50 split.  I'd need to see the cross tabs.

2. Rasmussen numbers are showing that among undecideds the net effect is a negative one.



Too much echo in here (zztop - 8/30/2008 5:38:19 PM)
Howard Dean was governor of Vermont, a state smaller than Alaska, and economically far less important.  Yes, he served longer, but Vermont may rank as the least important state in the Union.  Its GSP (state GDP) is a little more than half of Alaska's, and ranks dead last among the 50 States.  I think he had many progressive supporters, and was for a time a leading contender for President.

Chester A. Arthur, the father of the modern Civil Service System (Pendleton Act) held no elective office prior to becoming Garfield's VP.  He was a spoils system appointee of the Stalwart Republicans, running the NY Customs House.  He also briefly served as a quartermaster general during the Civil War.  Yet he is well regarded by historians because of his ethics reforms.

Harry Truman held elective office, but was pretty much a nobody in the Senate until his Truman Committee exposed government waste.  Prior to that he had always been regarded as a lightweight political hack, the senator from Pendergast.  Prior to becoming VP, he thus had one significant accomplishment.

I think analytically you are not being fair to Ms. Palin.



No, it's perfectly fair (Kindler - 8/30/2008 6:08:33 PM)
Well, Republicans (and before that the Clinton campaign) recently spent tens of millions of dollars and emitted huge quantities of CO2 proclaiming Obama to be inexperienced, unready and unqualified.  He spent the last year demonstrating his abilities, with a positive verdict from millions of Democratic primary voters.

Are you saying that Palin shouldn't be held to the same standard?  If she's qualified, let her prove herself.  



Absolutely (Indy4all - 8/30/2008 7:22:05 PM)
lets see it play out regardless of Party affliation. I think Gov like Kaine, Palin, Richardson,Warner, Barber,Pawlenty, Sebilus, Bloomberg (mayor), Guiliani, Romney, and the list goes on are ALL more qualified than ANY one term "freshman" or "junior" Senator from anywhere.

The Senate is a legislative paradigm and not a leadership one. Exactly what is a Senator challenged with other than review and vote and procedures. Why is it the same Senators seem to sponsor everything within Parties? On balance I would take any Governor over any Senator....btw anyone here who thinks that Barack Obama is more qualified than say a Gov. Bill Richardson is beyond crazy and virtually committable. When has Obama or any other Senator really had to deal with the border issue or a budget shortfall that really matters that cannot be whitewashed. What about budgets? I would challenge any one term Senator to fix VA transportation issues. Even Allen knew the Seante was a helluva lot easier than running the Commonwealth and so did Chuck Robb. The symantics is laughable.



The Senate . . . (JPTERP - 8/30/2008 8:17:47 PM)
is a legislative paradigm -- it's still useful though for Executive office.  Obama's organizing work though comes pretty close to CEO experience.  Just in terms of the way that he's managed a sizeable campaign -- it gives a sense about what kind of performance he might have in an executive role.  He's got the smarts and judgment.  He'll have a great counter-weight in Joe Biden.  

What about budgets?  How exactly did a one-term Governor from Texas do in that area?  What about the two-term Governor from California?

No one knows for sure how Obama will perform as an executive, but the criticism about Obama applies perhaps every bit as much to McCain.  



Absolutely (Indy4all - 8/30/2008 9:58:52 PM)
Mccain is not exempt from that either. But He did work in the House for awhile as well at least. Obama has hardly the experience of getting bills passed. Think about what he has gotten through and the only one that comes to mind of significance is the nuke bill. The guy as brillant as he is has been running for Senate now longer than he actually has been in his seat in the Senate or in his seat in committee.
Reagardless of Dem or Rep affiliations there seems to be different standards applied to different people.

One thing is for sure, Washington and Congress is broken. The question for independents will be who they trust to fix it.



Chester Arthur . . . (JPTERP - 8/30/2008 11:15:37 PM)
assumed the presidency at a time when the U.S. was still a regional -- not global player.

The idea of having a VP with NO foreign policy experience -- whose first trip out of the country was in 2007 is down-right dangerous.



Charlie Cook on Sarah Palin (Lowell - 8/30/2008 5:38:29 PM)
From National Journal:

Within three hours after the news that McCain had chosen Palin, a former top strategist to President Clinton was already zeroing in on the argument that Palin would be a heartbeat away from replacing a "72-year-old, four-time cancer survivor president." That's pretty tough stuff, but in terms of exposure to national security, Palin does make Obama look like Henry Kissinger.


Harriet Miers re-visited (Teddy - 8/30/2008 5:52:51 PM)
Is the Palin selection rather like Bush's nomination of Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court? Not only is there a stunning lack of qualifications, there is the implied insult: one female is just like another one, I need one so (for McCain at least) it's good to have one around who's easy on the eyes. Also, there is the trivializing of government service, since only the authoritarian big dog matters, the rest of government is a travesty and it would be better if we dispensed with it... so, no big deal if the liberals complain about qualifications.


Miers was a crony though.. (ericy - 8/30/2008 10:44:44 PM)

Can't make that charge in this case...


Short change Alaska all you want (Indy4all - 8/30/2008 7:28:58 PM)
outside of the politics of Palin, how about you talk to Alaskans who grew up there during the Cold War and talk to them about national security issues with regard to Alaska.
Remember there was actually a battle fought there in WWII that largely goes unnoticed against the Japanese on what would become US soil. Ever heard of the Bearing Strait? Ever had Russian fighters and bombers buzzing the VA airspace in international waters. Look I could care less about Palin on balance but lighten up on the Alaskan slams. Whens the last time our Gov had to deal with other nations or trade like Alaska and Canada relationship over oil and the pipelines. The problem isn't Palin its that we have gnerations of Americans who kknow nothing of Alaska other than Exxon Valdez for gods sake.


Kaine wasn't chosen as a running mate. (Pain - 8/30/2008 7:31:05 PM)
NT


But folks here thought he should have been (Indy4all - 8/30/2008 10:01:02 PM)
Many felt Webb would be a better choice but a large number of folks were hitting the threads saying Kaine should be the choice were they not?


You/re right (Pain - 8/30/2008 10:09:00 PM)

Palin is a great choice.

/rolls eyes



actually not (teacherken - 8/30/2008 10:42:02 PM)
none of the editors of RK supported Kaine as the Dem nominee for VP.


No they were for Webb (Indy4all - 8/30/2008 11:27:40 PM)
but the case for Webb was being challenged by commentors throughout the thread making the case for Kaine, especially when Webb was removed from the rhelm of possibility.


Very few commenters made the case (Lowell - 8/31/2008 6:27:57 AM)
for Kaine.  Regardless, none of the "front pagers" wanted Kaine as VP.


Timing (Indy4all - 8/31/2008 10:51:10 AM)
Honesty would go along way here. The commentors stated they supported it but since the consequences to State politics would impact things with the Repugs. The felt he was more than qualified and an great potential pick but worried about the State impact. Thast fair enough, but to say that people in the RK community did not support the potential selection is a bit disingenious.


"The commenters?" (Lowell - 8/31/2008 10:59:01 AM)
Are you arguing that ALL the commenters, or even MOST of the commenters, made the argument you're claiming they made?  If so, we all must have missed it (more likely, you're simply mistaken).  I saw a few commenters arguing for Kaine, and the RK poll had him with 13.89% of the vote.  That seems to accurately reflect the pro-Kaine-for-VP comment percentage...



Also, nobody claimed this (Lowell - 8/31/2008 11:07:42 AM)
"to say that people in the RK community did not support the potential selection is a bit disingenious."

Of course, "people" supported Kaine, the question is how many and who exactly.  Of the front pagers, as far as I know not one of them supported Kaine for VP. Of the people who voted in our poll, it was 13.89%. Out of the commenters, to my recollection, it was something like that 13.89%.

So please refrain from implications that we're not being "honest," when you are the one who's skewing the facts to suit  your argument (which is, apparently, that you think a woman with no experience and far-right-wing political philosophy should be "a heartbeat away" - brilliant!).



Actaully very false (Indy4all - 8/31/2008 1:51:58 PM)
Being from the Northeast I would have thought you would know better Lowell. The dynamic is just that; a tuff dynamic here in Virginia. I have yet to see a valid explaination as to why Warner polls 75% and Obama 47%. Why exactly Lowell? Because of the people frankly you apparently have no respect for; conservative Democrats.
I like to look at things from a conservative traditions not social ones as implied in you contempt for those Virginians who vote that way. I do not consider social issues like abortion or religious slants a force in my determination. And I am Catholic, go figure. I was not referencing the poll but the tone of the comments which did reflect Kain was qualified and would be excellant but that it would impact the State too much with Repugs and if Webb went then Kaine could make a selection for interim. But hey I could be mistaken on that or my interpretation so fair enough.
BTW these are not "arguements" but observations of merit and policy records Lowell. Again I supported Warner,Kaine,Webb but undertsand what apparently too many liberals in NOVA will not readily admit and that the ways to getting higher percentages of those "downstaters" you refer to often is not by attacking in the manner that has been done thus far.
I make no bones we are a divided household like many in this part of the State. Many are convinced in Warners' ability but not Obama's just yet Lowell. Thats a fact and the polls of Warner's 75% over Gilmore and Obama's 47-45 over Mccain bear this out.
How hard is it to be able to be objective enough in these discussions to see that the fight is for the middle and for the non-social conservative vote but the way to get it is not to attack a woman for being crazy pro-life or creationist. Its about informing us how will jobs be returned here, re-training undertaken, tax relief, education reformed and for gods sake fixing our dam infrastrcuture and transportation nightmare that will win the middle over not bashing someones religious takes on things. Face it Palin will get the SW & Valley Virginia Huckabee, Falwell, Chespeake/Robertson vote and Mccain will get the 55+ and the military vote on percentage and Obama will win NOVA, VA Beach, Norfolk, Richmond City and parts in between but whats left is the Virginia Conservative vote and Independents (26% in the last PPP poll) to fight for. Lets get around the real issues for these people and earn those votes.


Lemme get this straight... (Eric - 8/31/2008 9:10:04 AM)
You're arguing that Palin, who is orders of magnitude less qualified than Obama (who your party claims isn't qualified in the first place), is actually qualified for VP because you read that some RK readers supported Kaine (who, despite being unqualified, is also far more qualified than Palin)????

Don't Republicans claim to be against absurd arguments?  Aren't they the party of "no spin zones"?  

Look, if you like Palin as a VP choice and want to argue for her that's fine by me.  You like Palin because she's an extreme social conservative?  Because she's pro-oil? Because she thinks any environmental legislation just gets in the way and polar bears should go extinct?  You like her because she's a life long card carrying NRA member?  Fine.  Let's argue about whether those things are good for the country or not.  But please don't embarrass yourself by parroting one of the most idiotic GOP spins in years.



Maybe he likes teaching creationism (Lowell - 8/31/2008 9:20:10 AM)
in the public schools?  Maybe he likes banning contraception for married couples?  Maybe he likes forcing women who've become pregnant by their rapists to have the baby?  Etc., etc.


"your Party" (Indy4all - 8/31/2008 11:20:04 AM)
Excuse me, I am a conservative Democrat in the tradition of Chuck Robb and Mark Warner and have voted for every major Democrat in State wide elections to inlcude James Webb.
I have not supported the likes of Al Gore and Kerry because they are not indicative of conservative Democrat principles that create the "middle" here in Virginia. I am closer to the Warner moderate position. Why? Because I am a life-long Virginian and veteran who believes in gun ownership, less government, pro-choice, support both our coal and tobacco industries roots from the working class perspective and think our public educational system is broken and do not believe that the larger a bueracracy the more effcient or better it is. Conservatives believe in solution based energy policy to meet the needs of today while balancing our vision of the future. IE I want to move into the area of renewables moving forward as the technology gets better and better while still tapping our natural resources in as clean and effcient manner (footprint) as possible through stricter regulation.

My point was in fact the arguement that Palin is weak on environmental issues is absurd and she has demanded the tuffest standards of any Governor against the oil companies. On that we should champion here and all Alaskans. What excuse do Texans or Gulf States have?

Sorry for looking at thing objectively, excuse me for wanting people to view things from a position of intellectual honesty and not rhetoric. Is she extreme on issues like abortion or creationism; hell yeah. Is the abortion issue greater today in our lives than say energy policy, economic concerns, things like trade and jobs, our schools, heathcare options, taking care of our growing senior class and social security;;;an astounding NO. As a Catholic conservative Virginian I could care less about Palin, Biden, Obama or McCain abortion position frankly or frankly what judges people want in the Court. McCain wins he will not get a single one passed through confirmation with the current Congress anyway. And creationsim is a School Board at the local level issue and there will never be a single national piece of legislation in favor of it so in the end it matters very little, but by the way there are juristictions here in Virginia that could consider that as well as the growing infleunce of homeschooling in the coming years it seems. Are people here saying that we want a Federal law telling States what they can and cannot do at the local level with regard to schools outside of seperation of church and State...I would saty away from that discourse our you run the risk of swing 3 to 5 pts of independents in Virginia away from Obama.
Lets debate actual records and positions for everyone and have some honest intellectual discourse and not assume that just because people in the middle display a bit of integrity on the issues that they can say they like this position for Obama and this one for McCain that they somehow are "not true democrats". Where is it said you have to agree 100% on the laundry list of issues to support a candidate anyway.
I think CNN's Obama Revelaed documentary piece has uncorked the skepticism regarding "qualifications" especially given his voting record in the IL State Legislature so I truly do not believe I suffer from "spin" on this area. The fact is whether we support Obama or not we should be honest enough to say that we are not supporting Obama based on his record of achievement where there is little "politically" but ij  his ability to inspire and motivate Americans to change the direction of our country. It will take all of us Eric not just a guy in the WH. In the same light we should have the integrity not to "discount" Palin's path which is a great story as well.

Again explain to me why it is Warner is 28pts now ahead of Gilmore and Obama is 2 pts ahead of McCain in Virginia. Please explain that political dynamic.



Ok, the "your party" (Eric - 8/31/2008 12:44:33 PM)
may be wrong on my part.  It appears I've mixed you up with an avowed Republican who goes by a similar username.

Normally I would take your word for your position, but quite frankly, most of what I'm reading from you is regurgitation of the GOP meme regarding Palin.  Maybe you are a conservative Democrat or moderate independent, but it looks like you get your talking points from Fox, Rush, and the RNC.

But I do agree with you that no one is every going to agree with "their" party 100% of the time so these labels sometimes do become rather pointless.  Or, in the case of an important election for President with only two people to choose from, highly partisan and divisive.

Intellectual honesty and not rhetoric you say?  Fine.  What the hell does fighting the Japanese in WWII and/or holding off the Russians in the cold war (and beyond) in Alaska have anything to do with Palin?  Or even Alaska (except that's where it happened) for that matter?  Those are issues the United States had to deal with.  Alaska does not defend our borders against our enemies - the United States Armed Forces (stationed in Alaska) does.  

If your argument is merely that no one should be bashing Alaska, I agree.  If your Alaska argument has anything to do with Palin then it's you who is not being intellectually honest but instead practicing GOP rhetoric.  Being Governor of Alaska for 18-odd months in no way qualifies her (or anyone for that matter) as having international relations experience nor national security experience based on the geographical fact that Alaska lies between Russia and Canada.  Yet that is the GOP message.  Are you seriously buying that?

Do you want to have an intellectually honest discussion regarding her international relations and national experience based on her time in AK governor's mansion?  If so I'm all ears - please explain to me what I'm missing here.  



Very true (Indy4all - 8/31/2008 1:32:28 PM)
I was referring to Alaska in general about is circumstance with geography, trade and energy. Not Palin. I do not have a dog in that hunt other the fairness. We should all agree on that. The historic nature, mind you I have three young daughters is not lost on me but it appears it is on liberals who instantanouesly decide its a political move. I know they contend Clinton got 18 million votes or so, one from our household by the way, but if Obama "had" selected her as VP would that not have been a purely "political" move? There needs to be more balance in the criticism.
The international experience is a tough hill to climb for any Governor I guess, but she does have to deal with Canada and Russia as neighboors. A bit harder than say NC and MD I think. Alaska has very different trade aspects and relationships than say the lower 48 as well in terms of dealing with the pipeline and energy so that comes into play as well regardless of who is Gov. there from an economic/national security play if one sees it that way.  She has been to Kuwait to visit National Gurad troops as well and met with commanders on the gorund and that looks to be her only real involvement with ME question thus far other her son in the military but then has our Gov. made trips to our units overseas or has he taken the ideological opposition to the war the last few years which he has determined more important to support fellow Democrats on national issues. Palin has much to prove in this arena.
But on paper and merit she has little to prove in terms of effective leadership and bipartisanship and accomplishment whther we agree with the principle or not underlining the policy. Barack Obama has much to do in this arena to convince the middle. Not saying he cannot make the case but we all know the record is very thin Eric if it were presented to you with no name or Party affiliation and you just had it in front of you as a resume. Not saying thats bad its not a reality that he is all that "qualified". The arguements being made in my view about this are stupid on both sides. America has always been willing to get behind people they feel comfortable with and believe in or are willing to take a risk on---Obama included and actual records in this area do not matter much. Again Ross Perot got what was it like 10% of the Gneral Election vote and not being affliated with a Party that was huge and it did not have anything to do with a "record" either.
Although, since VP other than Cheney appear mostly at and concerned with funerals she would look rather nice representing America (ha ha)
So right now I am looking very hard for real solutions from both sides. I am supporting Warner but nothing has happened including the Convention thus far to shore up my support for Obama. As a fiscal conservative I want to see how all these things play out in the debates and Obama pledges how other than a tax cut he is going to do all that he says he will given that here in Virginia we know our taxes will inevitbaly be rising wither gas taxes or actual sales or income in a few years to pay for transportation woes. I not inclined to want to support a double whammy. Are you?


"As a fiscal conservative" (Lowell - 8/31/2008 1:51:25 PM)
If you're really a fiscal conservative, you should definitely support Obama over McCain.  As the Washington Post points out today, "Mr. McCain's ads on taxes are just plain false."

The facts? The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center found that the Obama plan would give households in the bottom fifth of the income distribution an average tax cut of 5.5 percent of income ($567) in 2009, while those in the middle fifth would get an average cut of 2.6 percent of income ($1,118). "Your taxes" would go up, yes -- but not if you're someone who is sweating higher gas prices. By contrast, Mr. McCain's tax plan would give those in the bottom fifth of income an average tax cut of $21 in 2009. The middle fifth would get $325 -- less than a third of the Obama cut. The wealthiest taxpayers make out terrifically.

The country can't afford the tax cuts either man is promising, although Mr. McCain's approach is by far the more costly. We don't expect either side to admit that. But neither side should get to outright lie about its opponent's positions, either

In sum, if you REALLY want to blow the deficit sky high, then vote for McCain - another Bush "borrow and spend and borrow and spend some more" Republican.  These guys are definitely not members of the Concord Coalition, that's for sure.  Nor are they "fiscal conservatives" as the Republican Party was historically, including when I joined Teenage Republicans in part for that reason...



No arguements there Lowell. (Indy4all - 8/31/2008 2:03:37 PM)
Barack Obama just has not closee the deal yet. He will need to spell it out in the debates and not stumble at times like he did facing Clinton when it was on policy matters.


Jack London, Seward's Icebox, the gold rush of 1898.... (presidentialman - 8/30/2008 9:31:21 PM)
Ok I see your point, but then there's Alexander Supertramp....


Obama's new ad (Lowell - 8/30/2008 5:44:08 PM)


Alaska's two major newspapers call Palin unqualified (Kindler - 8/30/2008 6:29:29 PM)
The most revealing thing is what those who know you say about you.  Per the Huffington Post http://www.huffingtonpost.com/... here's what Alaska's top papers say about Palin:

Anchorage Daily News: "It's stunning that someone with so little national and international experience might be a heartbeat away from the presidency."

Fairbanks Daily News-Miner:

Sen. John McCain's selection of Gov. Sarah Palin as his vice presidential running mate was a stunning decision that should make Alaskans proud, even while we wonder about the actual merits of the choice.... Alaskans and Americans must ask, though, whether she should become vice president and, more importantly, be placed first in line to become president.[...]She has never publicly demonstrated the kind of interest, much less expertise, in federal issues and foreign affairs that should mark a candidate for the second-highest office in the land. [...]
Most people would acknowledge that, regardless of her charm and good intentions, Palin is not ready for the top job.



Yeah (Indy4all - 8/30/2008 6:30:14 PM)
career politicians are always so much more "qualified" than the rest of us. Someday maybe my childrens generation will enatc balanced budget amedments and term limits. Oh to dream. People think nothing would ever be accomplished but I wonder just how much as been by this Congress anyway.

Palin and Obama both lack the experience, but as Obama campaign clearly demonstrated against Clinton this election is not about experience its about change so in the end it really does not matter does it.

I never ever thought I would see the day where RK lends credence to a Thelma Drake. Wow, whose next Eric "braindead" Cantor?



There's a difference. (Pain - 8/30/2008 6:36:26 PM)

Obama has been on the stump for the past 19 months making his case why he should be President, and the people elected him as the dem candidate.  Palin got chosen by a man who so badly wants to win that he will take a gamble on an unknown and inexperienced person to create enough buzz for him to achieve his goal, the country be damned.


So the Ross Perot effect (Indy4all - 8/30/2008 11:35:48 PM)
I have raised the money to spend 19 months on the stump and that "qualifies" as "experience"....dam we should have just thrown Billy Graham of old decades ago into the ring if thats the standard.

In the end we the voters make the determination anyway but lets dispense with the personalities and look at records of actual achievement. How do you feel when you have to interview people whose resume looks like they can not manage to stay in a job for more than a year before moving on to the next one? Do we feel confident in the person? Why should this be any different for anyone regardless of Party. Why is it acceptable for one side to have a guy with limited legislative or executive experience get a pass and then be critical of someone else who actually has some wherever it is. Is there an inferiority complex . We don;t like Obama or get motivated to support him becayse of "experience" its the MESSAGE. Experience was a dead end for Clinton and so it will be in any other agruement when you face inspiring figures like Obama or Ronald Reagan who grasp the skill of oration.



I think you miss the point (aznew - 8/31/2008 1:48:55 PM)
Experience, as it might be reflected on a resume, is only part of the equation.

Regardless of the level of Obma's experience, he has put himself, his record and his judgment out in front of the American people for 20 months, and they (or at least the ones voting in Democratic primaries) have determined that he is qualified for the office. And at the end of the day, the American people are the hiring partners here.

And for the record, I would have agreed that 2 years ago that Obama's resume was pretty thin, but I feel differently about him now having seen him conduct himself and his campaign in the national spotlight for an extended period of time. I no longer require his resume to make a judgment.

The problem with Palin, and the reason her lack of experience will matter more than Obama's, is the fact that we will have only 60 days to make a judgment about her, and given that there is a decent chance that she may end up as president, I question whether that is enough time to reach a judgment, to observe her in a variety of situations and meeting different kinds of public challenges.

Take the Rev. Wright episode. Whatever damage it did the Obama, it also showed that he could meet a viscous personal assault while maintaining his decency and his principles, and while keeping his eye on the ball. That is the real benefit of these grueling campaigns -- to find out who has the character to stand the heat and exercise good judgment.

That is why a pick like Palin is irresponsible. Sorry, but a year and a half as Alaska's governor, and a few years as mayor of a small Alaska town, really tell us very little one way or the other about her ability to handle the job of President. And I'm just not sure this is the kind of job you put someone near and hope they will work out.



This is all true, but... (Lowell - 8/31/2008 1:53:53 PM)
...I think it's important to emphasize once again that Barack Obama DOES have experience (nearly 3 years) on the Senate Foreign Relations committee, including Chairman of the Senate's subcommittee on European Affairs.  That's a lot more foreign policy experience than Sarah Palin has (actually, she has none at all - ZERO).


Correction (Lowell - 8/31/2008 1:54:51 PM)
I incorrectly wrote "nearly 3 years," should have said "nearly 4 years."


Obama actually (Indy4all - 8/31/2008 2:07:24 PM)
took those assignments (Homeland and European) in January 2007 Lowell after the Congressional elections of 2006 and the realignment of committees.


True n/t (aznew - 8/31/2008 2:00:57 PM)



Here's the difference (Kindler - 8/30/2008 8:24:31 PM)
Obama was selected by over 17 million voters as the most qualified candidate for president.

Palin has been selected by one person as the most qualified candidate for VP.

She deserves her chance to prove herself, but so far, I haven't seen much to convince me that she's ready to lead the most powerful nation in the world.



Get her on the Sunday talk shows (Lowell - 8/30/2008 8:28:02 PM)
and let's see her answer some tough questions on foreign policy, the national economy, etc.  Should be interesting...


Okay, fair enough (Indy4all - 8/30/2008 11:44:06 PM)
and Biden only got 9K votes from the same allotment of millions. Does that disqualify him or illustrate a lack of confidence in him to be able to perform the duties of President? I think not.

As a Virginian Kindler I can tell you that the same things were said about Woodrow Wilson who was Governor of New Jersey shortly before becoming President. He was a reformer from NJ when he ran which back then leaned Republican in Presidential elections. No one thought he could push through a reform agenda based on his lack of significant political tenure.



Paul Begala on Palin pick (Lowell - 8/30/2008 8:04:53 PM)
Well, Paul Begala certainly doesn't mince any words:

John McCain needs what Kinky Friedman calls "a checkup from the neck up."

In choosing Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin to be his running mate, he is not thinking "outside the box," as some have said. More like out of his mind.



Funny (Lowell - 8/30/2008 9:02:51 PM)


This is shameful pandering to the Alaskan moose-hunting lobby! ;) (Will Write For Food - 8/30/2008 9:28:01 PM)
This VP pick was so weird, it harks back to the day when some presidential nominees didn't select, much less personally know, their running mates.

McCain truly could've done better, even among possible women and moderates to run with him if he wanted to appeal to Hillary supporters and independents. I give him credit for not picking someone simply to pick up a swing state, but can a right-winger -- very anti-abortion, pro-"discussing" creationism in schools, NRA lifetime member (she joined still in the womb, right?), anti-stem cell research -- with little public-office experience from a politically isolated state run the country if something happens to President McCain?

But hey, it's a big election for the We-Don't-Usually-Matter States like Alaska, Delaware and Hawaii.

McCain/Annie Oakley in '08!



Reminds me (Indy4all - 8/30/2008 10:03:08 PM)
of the whole Bensen/Quayle issue from 1988. Reminder, we lost that one all thw hile everyone felt it relevent to attack and attack Quayle. Proved to be a brillant pick by Bush as it distracted people from the real issues....people are certainly taking the bait all over again.


you seem to froget that Dukakis (teacherken - 8/30/2008 10:45:09 PM)
was a spectacularly bad general election candidate.  I suspect that had far more to do with his loss than did the piling on  to Quayle.

Oh, and in comparison to Palin, Quayle was overqualified.  He had two terms in US House and was 2 years into his second term in US Senate when selected by Bush -  a total of 12 years of Federal experience, all legislative.



Thanks for making the point (Indy4all - 8/30/2008 11:47:46 PM)
No matter how many years one is in the Senate or House; it still does not mean there qualified or competent to be VP or President. Its about vision and a feeling on whether they can deliver that vision regardless whther from Hawaii/Chicago or Miss/AZ, Pa/DE or Idaho/Alaska.


What point? (Eric - 8/31/2008 9:24:58 AM)
That all someone needs in order to be qualified to be President (or VP) is a vision and some vague feeling that they can deliver that vision?  Yeah, right.

Palin is not qualified.  Period.  Get over it.

If I were you, I'd stop trying to sell something that no one is going to believe (except those who are desperate for four more years of Bush) and start worrying about a possible backlash from women voters.  I've already been hearing that many women are very unhappy at this clearly pandering pick.  The basic argument is that this pick is a complete insult to the intelligence of women - that McCain is gambling that women are to dumb to see right through his blatant pandering vote grab.



Agreed. It's insulting and absurd (Lowell - 8/31/2008 10:32:22 AM)
to suggest that Sarah Palin is ready to be Commander in Chief on Day #1. John McCain, who likes to claim he puts "country first," just put his political career ahead of country - I mean, imagine if Palin became president in the first few months and there was a major international or domestic crisis?  God help us.


Even Sarah Palin's mother in law (Lowell - 8/31/2008 10:36:04 AM)
has grave doubts:

...her mother-in-law has doubts.

Faye Palin admitted she enjoys hearing Barack Obama speak, and still hasn't decided which way she'll vote.

"We don't agree on everything. But I respect her passion," she said. "Being pro-life is who Sarah is."

[...]

Faye Palin said the entire family was shocked by the news on Friday.

"I'm not sure what she brings to the ticket other than she's a woman and a conservative. Well, she's a better speaker than McCain," Faye Palin said with a laugh...



Okay (Indy4all - 8/31/2008 1:08:42 PM)
As a proud conservative Democrat I can hoesntly say that Barack Obama is not qualified either. Agreed? Make the case. Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Bill Richardon, John Edwards, Kucinich....who is the best qualified to be Commander in Chief or Presdident based "solely" on resume?
1. Bill Richardon hands down
2. Joe Biden
3. Hillary Clinton
4. John Edwards
  Kucinich
5. Barack Obama

Now add the vision, direction, delivery, oration, charisma factor to the equation:

1. Barack Obama
2. hillary Clinton
3. John Edwards
4. Bill Richardson
5. Kucinich
  Gravel: aweful

This is what I am speaking to. Obama is not the most qualified Democrat to be President but he successfully navigated the nomination processs. Clinton could not make the "experience" or "qualification" issue stick nor will it be made in the same manner over Palin.

I think liberals in the media (the pundits) need to be real careful. I listened to quite a few women this morning and I have no way of knowing their allegiances voice strong opposition to the attack undertaken on Palin. They made a valid point. They said the media is focusing on her as a "woman" and contrasting her with how other "woman" may have been more qualified for the selection. Thats about quotas not about merit in terms of stating he had to pick a woman or did so for political gain. To contrast her with other woman is to imply that the only reason she was selected was she was a woman and people making that arguement will alienate other women who want to believe she was pick based on "merit" not gender. Its an interesting point frankly. If one believes it was solely a gender selection today there great risk for McCain, but if she happens to deliver on the merit end and back it up then there is great risk on those women changing points of view as well. Palin will be fighting an unimpressed media club who resents the fact she is not a regular on Meet the Press and such.It is very dangerous territory which is why the Obama/Biden visit yesterday made NO mention of her at all. They will ignore her officially I can see it coming; the sensitivity is too much risk and they will let liberal pundits do their biding at great risk. They are not nearly as eloquent as Obama.



Obama serves on the Senate Foreign Relations (Lowell - 8/31/2008 1:16:45 PM)
Committee, as well as the Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee. He is chairman of the subcommittee on European Affairs.  Obama has made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Central Asia and Africa.

No, Barack Obama is no Joe Biden on foreign policy (who is, except for Richard Lugar and a few others?), but he's a gazillion times more qualified and knowledgeable than Sarah Palin.  And no, living pretty close to Russia doesn't count, any more than Bush living close to Mexico made HIM an expert on Latin America...

P.S. I'd say that Obama is about equal in foreign policy expertise to John Edwards, definitely ahead of Dennis Kucinich (unless you're counting the ability to work with space aliens as part of "foreign relations" - ha).



Lowell (Indy4all - 8/31/2008 2:01:35 PM)
Again where is the fairness? He has been in the Seante for how long and has been campaigning for over a year and has not been in committee regardless while out campaigning so its interesting that that point gets made. I guess the same arguement would have been made against my boy Mark warner if he had stayed in the race I guess. No real national security experience.

As to Obama experience Lowell, my father an 85 year old WWII and Navy veteran put it fairly simple; Any officer in the Navy who has served and retired from the Nabvy has more international experience/exposure than any one term Senator and that includes Hillary Clinton whom he supported as well.

But hey I am glad to see that you did not dispute that Richardson has more than all of them combined. Now that the Palin pick has been made I wonder from a western state perspective if Richardson would not have been a better pick. Jury is out, but she could play well in Idaho, Montana, Colorado, Wyoming, Nevada. I think Washington and Oregon are of course very secure but Colorado concerns me. I think its a big home school state as well and I think she is big on that.



i wont criticize Palin (pvogel - 8/30/2008 11:40:44 PM)
However, Mccains insane judgement is well deserving of critizing.

Folks,  if Hillary was the democratic nominee,  what unknown black person would mccain had picked?????



Mike Steele of course from MD for 100 (Indy4all - 8/30/2008 11:48:39 PM)


"Sam Donaldson questions Sarah Palin's VP credentials" (Lowell - 8/31/2008 12:37:27 PM)


Meet the Press discussion of Palin (Lowell - 8/31/2008 12:39:53 PM)


Paul Begala said it all (Pru - 8/31/2008 1:07:24 PM)
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITI...

With this pick, Belgala points out, McCain has made his age and health (with four recurrences of cancer) very important...



Ted Stevens for Sarah Palin (Lowell - 8/31/2008 1:23:10 PM)


Every time I hear his voice I think of the "series of tubes...not a big truck" line. :)



Indy, the issue is not Palin's qualification, per se (aznew - 8/31/2008 1:56:09 PM)
the issue is McCain's judgment in choosing someone who may, or may not be qualified, to be president.

What does this pick say about McCain? Well, it says that when he is backed into a corner, he will roll the die. I'll concede that the choice is an interesting political gambit as far as hail marys go. And for a few days at least a campaign that was inexorably falling toward the trash heap of history has generated life and interest.

But even McCain acolytes concede it is a risky move.

I think it is fair to question whether this is the kind of temperament, judgment, and approach to challenges we want in a President.



Fair enough (Indy4all - 8/31/2008 2:24:20 PM)


From Wasilla to the White House (Lowell - 8/31/2008 3:08:21 PM)




Interesting discussion. (spotter - 8/31/2008 3:29:15 PM)
I think of this like a hiring decision.  You don't get to be President or Vice President by seniority alone.  There are merit qualifications that the voters demand.  On the other hand, there are also minimum qualifications, in terms of education, experience, and judgment.  Thelma Drake doesn't meet the education or judgment criteria.  Sarah Palin doesn't meet the experience or judgment criteria, and shouldn't even be interviewed for the position.