Two Provocative Articles on Tim Kaine, Republicans

By: Lowell
Published On: 7/27/2008 5:19:14 PM

Today brings two provocative articles about Tim Kaine.  The first, which I read this morning, is by Jeff Schapiro in the Richmond Times-Dispatch ("Kaine for VP? Look at the fallout"). Here are a few 'grafs I found particularly interesting, especially the part on the McDonnell-Bolling dynamics:

A Kaine vice presidency -- puh-leese! -- would not only change the lineup here, it could lead to a realignment. In Virginia, departures and death have done just that at least three times over the past 75 years.

[...]

Kaine would surrender the key to the kingdom -- the governorship -- to a Republican, Lt. Gov. Bill Bolling. He's now running for re-election but likely would s GOP whisperings suggest that Bob McDonnell, current gubernatorial nominee-in-waiting, would defer to Bolling, run again as attorney general and take the party's top spot in 2013.

[...]

Governor Bolling also could thwart Kaine's unfinished business: kicking out the House Republican majority. Bolling could finesse the 2011 redistricting, extending GOP legislative power for another decade.

And that may have Virginia Commonwealth University rethinking Kaine as its next president. Why risk its slice of the state budget to more shoving between Kaine and Republicans?

Then the only place Kaine could get a job is an Obama White House.

No question, if Barack Obama picks Tim Kaine as his running mate, it starts a chain reaction of events that will make Virginia politics...er, "interesting" in 2009.  Potentially, we could see political turmoil the likes of which we haven't seen in anyone's memory, with Gov. Kaine's entire cabinet being replaced by Bill Bolling, a scrambling of 2009 executive branch and House of Delegate races, a potentially nasty fight between Bolling and "Taliban Bob," potentially large effects on redistricting, etc., etc.  In other words, hold onto your hats if Barack Obama picks Tim Kaine as his running mate and makes it to the White House (which, given John McCain's ongoing meltdown, appears increasingly likely).

Anyway, the other article I found fascinating was this one by NLS, which compares the Jim Gilmore and Tim Kaine stories and finds numerous similarities. This is fascinating Virginia political history, stuff that most of us probably don't know, but definitely worth a read.  Check it out, and tell everyone what you think in the comments section of this diary. Thanks!


Comments



VP (South County - 7/27/2008 9:27:30 PM)
I don't think it'll be Kaine.  Obama may have considered him or Webb earlier to put VA in play.  But I think its clear that despite what Tom Davis says, VA is already in play without one of its own on the ticket.  Plus, with Gilmore melting down in the Senate race, a Mark Warner tidal wave will help Obama in the state anyway.  With energy, the economy, and foreign affiars the biggest issues, I think Obama needs someone with more experience in handling economic or defense issues, making other candidates as more attractive options.


I hope you are right, South County. n/t (KathyinBlacksburg - 7/27/2008 9:45:05 PM)


Also, very interesting NLS article (KathyinBlacksburg - 7/27/2008 9:54:26 PM)
He showed some parallels I hadn't considered.  It is also very revealing about Warner's early diss of Tim.  And I think it says more about Mark than Tim.  


So, now I am wondering, (KathyinBlacksburg - 7/28/2008 1:40:54 PM)
what does it say about me if I diss a former candidate (now gov) I worked for and respect?  Am I (or we) guilty of the same thing I criticize when we continue being upset with Tim?  And distancing ourselves?  I am including myself in this, remember.  Were we right to delete the name from our masthead?  Were we doing the same thing Mark once did over one or two issues?  It's got me to thinking....for what it's worth....


My differences with Tim Kaine are over (Lowell - 7/28/2008 1:43:45 PM)
policy issues ranging from embryonic stem cell research to the environment to the way we do business with large corporations like Bechtel.  That's not a "diss," that's Democracy.  If Tim Kaine changes his views on issues that I care deeply about, I'll change my opinion of him.  Until then, stalemate.


Nonetheless.... (Doug in Mount Vernon - 7/28/2008 5:12:39 PM)
There does seem to be an over-emphasis on some of these disagreements, to the point of appearing to be an all-out blogospheric assault on Tim Kaine.

Certainly, I am not happy with the approach he's taken on a few key issues, but all in all, he's still a good Governor, and we should NOT be "throwing the baby out with the bathwater", so to speak.

I think we can urge him to improve, but the type of postings and comments that have been put out on NLS and R?? are way over the top to me.

Why not emphasize some of the positives that Kaine has accomplished, like ensuring that other priorities are not raided to fund transportation, land conservation and Chesapeake Bay clean-up, and land use reform?

He is not completely unaccomplished, and in fact I wish that I'd see more from the Kaine PR folks holding up some of their administration's accomplishments.



I'll definitely give him credit on the (Lowell - 7/28/2008 5:17:10 PM)
land conservation front.  Also, I think he did a great job in the aftermath of the Virginia Tech shootings.  Finally, I think Kaine's done a great job raising money and campaigning for Democrats in 2007.

Other than that...what else? What "land use reform" are you talking about?  Wouldn't that involve things like, ohIdunno, building a tunnel through Tysons Corner rather than an "aerial" option so we can make that a model edge city?



Sounds like someone... (Jerry Saleeby - 7/27/2008 10:16:22 PM)
...who doesn't like Tim Kaine and wants to associate him with Jim Gilmore.  You may disagree with some of his decisions but to hint that he and Gilmore are similar is insane.

I would suggest you note that the folks from the Richmond area who have a better perspective than someone from NOVA basically dispute much of what NLS says about Kaine's time in Richmond politics.



You have a point, Jerry. (KathyinBlacksburg - 7/28/2008 7:11:32 AM)
I'd like to add that, despite the interesting parallels it draws, I that the NLS article is excessively harsh.  We've all been pretty tough on Tim.  But I think that the NLS piece goes way too far.  


I'd be interested in your point-by-point (Lowell - 7/28/2008 7:35:59 AM)
analysis of NLS's parallels.  Can you provide specifics as to where he's wrong, assuming you believe he's wrong?  I'd love to hear your version of events, this could be very interesting!  Thanks.


I'd appreciate that too... (KathyinBlacksburg - 7/28/2008 9:31:18 AM)
I have shared the frustration here with Tim on occasion, especially the issue about which we changed our masthead.  That said, I don't profess to know Tim.  However, I have spoken with him on occasion (don't know exactly how many times, but more than several).  He probably doesn't remember me.  However, he has the best people skills of any politician I have ever met.  And I believe they are genuine.  He respects those with whom he differs.  

The time was during the governor's race.  I once had a strong reaction to a speech he gave in which I thought he wrongly attacked his own side of the aisle.  It gets old when pols swipe at their base, while the GOP does the opposite.  I won't get into the issue, but I thought the speech was pretty unforgivable, gratuitous, pandering to Republicans.  I wrote and told him so.  I figured I would be banned from not just our local party from there on out.  Many others here were upset with him because of other issues.  About 100 activists were.  

Some pols would say to-heck with them.  But he came to town and met with us and stayed till every last public and one-on-one question was answered, in depth.  No mincing.  When it was over, I waited to be the last one who talked to him.  He sat down at a table for about fifteen minutes and talked with me about my concern.

I do not have to tell you how rare that is in a field where you often have to "pay to play." The little guys and women who do the gruntwork, but aren't big donors, don't get much respect and certainly not time, the most valued commodity a pol has, imho.

But most of all,  Tim actually listened.  He didn't listen while mindlessly nodding (then does no do anything--even about something as important as getting an auditable paper trail for elections in place, while he was still gov)or looking over my shoulder to the next person (as Warner is prone to do).  Tim listened.  Some might say this isn't much.  But it is.  Because one of GW Bush's problems is he doesn't.  Gilmore doesn't.  Allen doesn't.  They are not open to learning anything, or trying to change their world view when competing facts present. We know we never get even that much from the Virginia Republicans, who listen to no one but their own ideology.  

He said (paraphrase) he never realized how that comment came off.  He understood why I felt the way I did.  This was the  future governor of our state.  And he sat down and talked and listened.  No arrogance.  

Now I know as well as the next person that empathy and listening alone don't make a person a great leader, or mean we'll get the policies we want.  I haven't always agreed with Tim.  But I know he listens.  So perhaps I didn't want to hear all of his stances.  Maybe I projected that I would agree with him more than I actually would.  I'm a pretty savvy student of leadership, and yet....He did endorse Lieberman in 2004, after all.   I knew when I decided ultimately to volunteer locally to elect him, that we wouldn't get a good deal of what we wanted.  I just hoped it would be more than we did, especially on transportation, etc. And lest we forget, the alternative was Kilgore??????  But anyone who is fair has to admit the Republicans, seeing how Mark milked the previous efforts of some of them to forge solutions with Warner, vowed to obstruct Tim at every turn.  Tim perhaps could have used the gov's pulpit more this past year.  But most of all we have to overturn the GOP majority in the House.  That wouldn't solve the Dominion power situation, though.

But I have to say, in the final analysis, the comparisons of him (however interesting) and Gilmore really kinda rub me the wrong way because, well, the comparisons are somewhat superficial.  It's just my humble opinion, but I think Tim Kaine cares about the state and its people.  Gilmore doesn't care about anyone but his own catch-phrases and ambition.  Some of the "parallels" are just coincidence too.  I think Tim Kaine is an incredibly talented politician.  I am surprised that things haven't gone better.  But I think I underestimated how far the GOP would go to assure nothing gets done.  But, hey, look at the government (partial) shutdown of the Gingrich era.  I'd be interested in more of what Jerry has to say.



To clarify one statement above... (KathyinBlacksburg - 7/28/2008 9:51:38 AM)
[I have got to stop commenting when I am such a hurry.]  Above I said this (garbled) statement: "He didn't listen while mindlessly nodding (then does no do anything--even about something as important as getting an auditable paper trail for elections in place, while he was still gov)or looking over my shoulder to the next person (as Warner is prone to do)."

First, I should have edited it to read:

He didn't 1) listen while mindlessly nodding (then do nothing --even about something as important as getting an auditable paper trail for elections in place, while he was still gov)or 2) look over my shoulder to the next person (both, as Warner is prone to do).

And second, the clarification: I should add that, to my knowledge, Tim hasn't done anything about a paper trail either.  But he wasn't asked by as many people I know.  When Warner, a technocrat, who gets what technology can and cannot do, wouldn't move on that issue, even when we presented him with the evidence of the studies on hackability, many of us down here didn't try with Kaine (our mistake).  PS: If Democrats can't understand the problem, or won't protect the vote, then who will?



I don't dispute the parallels... (Jerry Saleeby - 7/28/2008 10:29:29 AM)
...it was more the tone.  It clearly was an effort to portray Gov Kaine in a negative light by comparing him to Jim Gilmore.  While the parallels might be interesting, I'm not sure they really draw an accurate picture of the kind of person and politician that Kaine is.  I would dare say that Kaine's experiences in life and politics make him very different from Gilmore even if there are some parallels to their respective political aspirations.  People can chart similar paths and reach completely different destinations.


Agree, Jerry, n/t (Thanks) (KathyinBlacksburg - 7/28/2008 1:37:32 PM)


I agree (Doug in Mount Vernon - 7/28/2008 5:17:36 PM)
Thanks for saying what I've been feeling lately so eloquently and respectfully to all viewpoints.