As a matter of fact, I believe I saw Obama wearing a flag pin in a photo of him with John Edwards, printed right here on RaisingKaine. NTIMAD (Not That It Makes Any Difference), because I myself have always wondered if flag pin wearers do not protest too much, like Lady MacBeth, you know. Given that Republicans have repeatedly betrayed their own intentions and have accused opponents of doing exactly what they themselves are planning to do (isn't that called "projection" by psychologists?), I can only conclude that Republicans have secret doubts about their own patriotism, and are covering up their own treachery by insisting on displaying flag pins prominently as evidence of patriotism. Sort of fake, fake. NTIMAD.

I think I read where he was handed an American flag pin and asked to wear it by a military veteran and he did.  More comments?

I am really Agorovated (snark)to the Nth degree about this subject.  WILL SOMEONE ask George Dubya Bush and Dick (I've never had a 4 hour erection) Cheney whether they think they earned their American Flag Lapel Pins, or did they just have the Secret Service go out and buy them a bunch.

I'm "Bi-Curious" about what "makes a real American boy" and then what "a real American boy" does for America when America is at war?

You GUYS!  Frat boys always did think US NAM VETS were some kind of assholes for not figuring out a way to avoid real bullets, grenades, and other weapons of personal destruction.

SO, do we get John who I crossed over party lines and voted for in 2000 BECAUSE he supported Campaign Finance Reform?  Shit no, we get John, who cares about campaign finance and whatever anyone who wants to donate, it's okay.

FLAG PINS SUCK.  Most of the politicos who wear them didn't earn them and I RESPECT Barack for NOT WEARING an unearned pin, UNLESS, as in WVa, a Vet asked him to wear it.

I served and I wear a 101st Airborne Pin which does supecede the American Flg Pin because ONLY TROOPERS who "put their meat on the line for their country" can wear the Screaming Eagle Lapel Pin.  Bush, Cheney, and all the other republican pussies who managed to avoid getting shot at in Vietnam by an enemy that really wanted to kill them can wear UNDESERVED AMERICAN FLAG LAPEL PINS, and then

Critize Barack Obama who admits he diddn't serve and doesn't want his failure to serve equal the failure to serve of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney.

I DEMAND RESPECT from flag pin wearers who never served simply because I DO NOT OWN OR WEAR an AMERICAN FLAG LAPEL PIN AND NEVER WILL UNTIL BUSH AND CHENEY STOP WEARING  PINS NEITHER OF THEM EVER EARNED!

The only other thing I can think of is either the Gov of Ohio or Pennsylvania, because either of them would send a strong signal of respect and purpose to Hillary Land and could deliver a critical swing state.

other than that... Obama/Webb '08

in several conversations with politically astute people yesterday in two very different venues I heard people positing that he might make an endorsement while on Meet the Press -  anyone know anything about it?

Do it at some big campaign event - like Edwards did - with Obama.  Assuming he will endorse Obama.

Do it with Al Gore.

That is an awesome line up!!

Have you folks with inside lines into Virginia Democrat goings on heard any murmurs at all emanating from Senator Webb's office or advisers current and former or from Gov. Kaine's office about what might be going on with the VP slot?  Surely the people who work closely with Webb are being asked about this by friends and families.  Even if it's being handled very confidentially, if there's any substance to this at all, there must be some slippage, some talk.

Senator Webb is going to be asked about the vice-presidency on every single one of these appearances.

Let's see how well he says "no" while still saying yes ;-)

so I am not in a position to answer

A denial ;-)

;-)

Darn Internet.

but nothing definite.  Personally, I feel strongly that Jim Webb would be an ideal running mate for Barack Obama, but I don't know if the Obama people share my point of view on this.

Vice-President Jim Webb? I don't think so.

If you read what the kids over at Raising Kaine are up to as frequently as I do, you know that they've been in love with the idea of Jim Webb as a VP candidate, for either Clinton or Obama, for quite a while now. Let me just dispel that notion right now: Not only is it not going to happen, but Jim Webb would be an awful pick to be on a ticket.

Webb's supporters (mostly, partisan liberals) believe that Webb would add experience, gravitas, and regional balance to a ticket. Not quite. ...

Factual inaccuracy:

Jim Webb served for less than a year as Navy Secretary, and has served for a little over a year as a Senator. Granted, he'd be in office until he's sworn in, so let's go ahead and give him the remaining eleven months as well. That provides him with, total, 34 months of public service.

An authority from the right, those champions of "compromise and working together", explains what the American people want:

What folks like Lowell believe is "gravitas" is a shiny word for "angry". Jim Webb is an angry guy. He's curt, he's gruff, he's not personable, and he makes anybody who sees him immediately on edge and defensive. He's a confrontational guy. According to liberals like Lowell and Markos, confrontation is good. Liberals need to fight tooth-and-nail against the evil Republican Party, and so Jim Webb fits well with the far-left of the party. However, the majority of the American people (who are not self-identified liberals) want desperately to see more compromise and working together, not confrontation and partisanship.

Truth is, 51+% of VA electorate is still kneejerk 'red' (funny how that has come to mean right wing):

But the truth of the matter is, no one in Virginia really likes Jim Webb all that much.

More here:

http://tooconservative.com/?p=...

Senator Webb had support from moderates, conservatives, and people that don't traditionally vote Republican.  Just how does this guy think he beat George Allen?

I know, because I convinced many of them to help him oppose Harris Miller and later oppose Macaca (the Programmers Guild).  I was an independent at the time myself - I'm not your typical Democrat.

Senator Webb will be a very attractive choice for all of us "Lou Dobbs Democrats" and independents who have seen jobs go to India, China, and elsewhere.  Senator Webb is a populist/progressive Democrat (not in the Hillary Clinton sense of the word) and will make Obama an easier choice for many independents and moderate Republicans who are on the fence.  He is a breath of fresh air for those of us who don't apologize for being from the south, owning guns, and loving the military.  (Loving the military doesn't == supporting the Iraq war)

As far as being angry, don't we all have a right to be  angry at the mismanagement of George Bush and his administration?  I don't know how you can look at what his administration has done over that last 8 years, and not be angry.    

I meant people who don't usually vote Democrat

Do those old conservative f**ts know how old Lowell is? How old  I am? What a sweet pat on the head, please go away remark. :-)

Though RK policy is no c & p's of articles in full, this is too short to excerpt.  Let's say, for scholarly purposes, it needs to be quoted in its entirety to capture the tone.  So please indulge us on this one.

Jim Webb Campaigns (Hard) for Vice President

The Nation -- In case anyone has missed it, the Jim Webb for Vice President campaign is up and running.

Few candidates actually announce that they are running for the No. 2 spot on their party's presidential ticket, and the Democratic senator from Virginia is keeping with the "Who, me? Running with Barack Obama? Do you really think so?" etiquette that defines vice presidential politics.

But Webb is running... hard.

Ronald Reagan's former Secretary of the Navy's got a new campaign book out -- A Time to Fight: Reclaiming a Fair and Just America -- and he is not unaware of the fact that he's currently topping salon.com's "Obama Veepstakes" survey.

But Webb -- whose carefully-nurtured blue-collar credentials are made to order for Democrats who worry about whether their presumptive presidential nominee might come off as a tad too elite -- is not leaving the promotion of his potential candidacy to others.

The Virginia senator's going for maximum face-time as the speculation turns to vice-presidential picks.

Webb's Senate office just circulated a schedule of his upcoming media appearances -- something they have rarely if ever done in the past.

And it's a busy one.

Here's where Webb will be on the broadcast and cable campaign trail over the next several days:

Sun, May 18: Meet the Press (NBC)

Mon, May 19: CBS Early Morning

Mon, May 19: Fresh Air (NPR)

Mon, May 19: Late Show with David Letterman (CBS)

Tues, May 20: Countdown with Keith Olbermann (MSNBC)

Tues, May 20: Lou Dobbs (CNN)

Watch for some heavy-duty good-old-boying on the last of those programs as Webb does his best to convince the Hillary-friendly host that an Obama-Webb ticket would be just the ticket for angry white men like, well, Lou Dobbs.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenat...

Webb of Intrigue
Slate
By Michael Weiss

Posted Wednesday, May 14, 2008, at 6:14 PM ET

As the sponsor of a new GI Bill and a tough-minded Cold Warrior who once served as secretary of the Navy under Ronald Reagan, Sen. Jim Webb has found himself the subject of vice presidential chatter in the liberal blogsophere. Many bloggers think the Virginian lawmaker has all the essentials in terms of experience and appeal that are lacking in likely Democratic nominee Barack Obama. ...

http://www.slate.com/id/2191477/

+

Check this out:

jim webb vp - Google Blog Search

http://blogsearch.google.com/b...

Webb's Senate office just circulated a schedule of his upcoming media appearances -- something they have rarely if ever done in the past.

Webb's office circulates his appearance schedule almost daily!!  

For whatever reason, I think his first love is writing.
As VP could he continue this? Could he do book tours etc.
promoting his books and his thoughts as VP? Obviously, he can as a senator.....Just curious.

I heard this interview on my way back from Richmond tonight.  Webb Interview on NPR

He burst out laughing at the mention of the VP slot, and said if he had to pick a prototype it would be Daniel Patrick Moynihan because he brought intellectual thought into the debate.  He then said that he admires both Obama and Clinton, but said that he had told them both "I can do you a lot more good in the Senate."  Take it for what it's worth, people.  

In the meantime, enjoy the fascinating excerpt from his book also posted with the story.

was absolutely not, no way.

He's a patriot.  All Obama has to say is your country needs you and he's there.

Also note, that in marked contrast to what he's claimed in several prior recorded responses, where he said he hadn't even talked to anyone from the presidential campaigns about it, here he says, "My advice to them was I can do you a lot more good in the Senate."  Aah, so now it slips out that both Obama and Clinton have talked to him about the vp slot.

It's an unwritten rule: If you are on the list of potential VP picks, pretend you don't want the job.

My advice to Webb (if he does want the job) pretend a bit harder ;-)  

This is really no different than young people dating.  The guy who acts the least interested stands the best chance of getting the girl ;-)

And let's not forgot that Webb has a healthy ego.  Yes, he's got enough class to be demur and coy, though the ostensibly incredulous laugh when asked on NPR sounded something less than genuinely spontaneous.

I'll say it again:  Webb is a poor choice for V.P., for Obama.  Webb barely won his race in 2006 - and lets get serious, if it weren't for "Mecaca" there would probably be no Senator Webb.  

Webb can attract working class voters - WHERE?  He lost the 9th, 5th and 6th CD's in his Senate race.  And yes I know, he really didn't campaign there!  So where is the proof he will do well with these voters?  None!  And besides, white working class voters are shrinking in terms of their portion of the elctorate.  

Check out this article by Alan Abramowitz:

Forget about soccer moms and NASCAR dads. The key voting bloc in 2008 is the white working class. According to the new conventional wisdom of American politics, the presidential candidate who can win the support of white working class voters will have the inside track on becoming the next president of the United States.

Moreover, the support of this group is considered especially critical for the Democratic candidates since the white working class was a key component of the electoral coalition forged by Franklin Roosevelt during the New Deal. For Democrats to regain their dominant position in American politics, according to this argument, they must first regain the loyalty of the white working class.

It's an appealing story and one that the Democratic presidential candidates appear to believe. Lately both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have been spending lots of time on the campaign trail trying to woo white working class voters by promising to renegotiate trade agreements and bring back good paying blue collar jobs in places like Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Indiana.

There's just one problem with this story. It's not 1936 or 1948 any more. It's 2008 and those good paying blue collar jobs are not coming back. The white working class has been shrinking for decades and it's going to continue shrinking. Not only that, but the white working class voters who remain are more likely to be Republicans than Democrats. Instead of trying to return to their glory days of yesteryear, Democrats could spend their time more productively by cultivating the professional and managerial workers who comprise a growing share of the white electorate and who are more sympathetic to the party's current message.

The white working class has been shrinking as a proportion of the overall white electorate for at least the last fifty years, as the data in Table 1 demonstrate. In the 1950s, manual workers make up 47 percent of the white electorate in the United States while sales and clerical workers made up 21 percent and professional and managerial workers made up 32 percent. By the first decade of the 21st century, however, manual workers made up only 24 percent of the white electorate while sales and clerical workers made up 33 percent and professional and managerial workers made up 43 percent.

http://www.centerforpolitics.o...

To be frank, Dems have been losing working class voters for the last two decades over gays, God and guns and that will not change.  And now we can add race to that as well:

http://therealnews.com/web/ind...

http://abcnews.go.com/PollingU...

http://www.kentucky.com/news/s...

Are working class voters going to vote Obama just because Jim Webb is on the ticket?  NO!

Webb won by winning educated male voters, African American voters and younger voters.  Webb LOST women to Allen 53% to 47%.  Do you think Obama needs to carry this baggage, considering the fact that women backing Clinton are furious that Clinton is not the nominee?  Think about it!  And you and I have seen this ad but most in this country have not.  You think this will fly with women across this country? Remember, Webb lost women 53% to 47%.  If Obama loses women by this margin he is toast on election night.  Obama has to carry female voters or he loses.    

Webb is pro-gun.  But he failed to gain the NRA endorsement in his 2006 Senate race.  And he lost the CD's throughout VA that contain the most gun owners during his Senate run.

So, the very voters Webb is alleged to be strongest with are the very groups of voters he lost in his Senate race in 2006 - women, working class white voters and gun owners.  And, he is a terrible campaigner, cannot stay on message and his personality does not mesh with being the number two man in charge.

And for crying out loud, Webb can travel all over to promote his book but couldn't attend JJ?  

And one other thing.  Many who started and who are long associated with this blog were the very one's who drafted Webb in 2006 - and I applaud your efforts.  However, I think trying to draft him again this year is a huge mistake.  While it might be nice to say in the future that " I know and helped draft Jim Webb for Senate and V.P., think about if he is really a good fit for Obama - or a good fit for yourselves.  

Well, that sounds petty.

" think about if he is really a good fit for Obama - or a good fit for yourselves. "

He is a good fit for America.  Nuff said.

from you and a few other delicate flowers whose feelings were really, really hurt?  Wasn't it settled that it was his or some other family member's birthday and they wanted to celebrate with his son before he returned to his unit?  It was MONTHS ago, please find something else to be offended about.  Sheesh.

First, let me say that I'd really like to see Webb remain in the Senate.  I agree with him that he could do the most good there.  However, it is ridiculous to argue that Webb doesn't resonate with either the white working class or with women or that he somehow just couldn't get NRA endorsement.  

The fact is that someone conveniently "lost" Webb's answers to the gun survey in a clumsy effort to win the race for Allen.  That ain't happening again, especially after Webb made some very strong pro-2nd Amendment statements after Phillip Thompson got arrested at the Capital.  If anyone didn't know his position on guns before then, they sure know it now.  McCain is not going to get an NRA endorsement or if he does it's going to be lukewarm.  He's got a very mixed record on guns.    

Webb was a brand new campaigner in a state with an established incumbent.  That's not the case during this presidential election.  We've got a Vietnam vet claiming vastly superior foreign policy knowledge over Obama, but Webb would be able effectively to cancel out that claim, especially given that this book of his looks terrific.  He's obviously a sophisticated thinker on foreign policy and extremely consistent.  A few speeches addressing McCain's alleged expertise and he'd come out on top.  Frankly, anyone listening to Obama's explanation of how he'd handle the withdrawal from Iraq could swear it was drafted by Webb.  

Re Webb's relationship to women, this was a manufactured issue by the very Rovian Allen campaign.  Since his election Webb's stock with women has grown substantially as shown by recent surveys.  The fact is, women like what they hear from Webb.  And look at his office.  Not only did he have a lot of women running his campaign, he has also brought aboard plenty of women into his office.  Webb talks about the bread and butter issues dear to women's hearts like wage disparity, the incarceration crisis, and the health insurance mess.  You think the women who are sending their sons, daughters, husbands, and siblings off to the war don't see what he's doing for veterans with the New GI Bill?  You think the veterans aren't listening?  Go over to military.com and take a look at the forums discussing the Webb-Hagel Amendment.  Webb's stock has really gone up, even with conservative veterans.

I have no doubt that Webb would add a lot to Obama's campaign, but I still think it would be best to leave him in the Senate where he can do his best work.  

The Senate, of course, is part of the vp's official bailiwick.

Not to suggest that the vp's constitutional role as President of the Senate is anything more than ceremonial, especially so since odds are the Democrats will be increasing their slim Senate majority, yet Webb would bring considerable influence in the Senate to the vice-presidency.  And that's all the more remarkable in that he's only roughly halfway through his first term.

Of the proliferating blog and msm commentary on a Webb vice-presidency, here's an excerpt from a particularly good one that highlights Webb's remarkable rise in the Senate.  

From Jack Landers:

RULE .303
Wednesday, May 14, 2008

Jim Webb: Gentleman Enforcer for Barack Obama

... In his subtle, professional and gentlemanly way, Jim Webb has become a powerhouse of the Senate after only a year and a half into his freshman term. I can think of no other US Senator in the modern era who has risen to such a position of respect and influence in that body in such little time. He's done it without grandstanding or attacking. He's done it by being an unquestionably experienced hand on defense issues and by always placing emphasis on getting legislation done rather than scoring political points in the media.

The type of partnership that could emerge between Obama and Webb as President and Vice President would be a powerful one indeed. A new Obama administration is going to have an enormous challenge in terms of enforcing it's will on a military whose leadership was long since purged of heretics by the Bush administration. Many parts of Obama's legislative agenda will also be opposed by enough Senate Republicans to deny him the 60 votes necessary for cloture. Who better to patiently disarm this resistance than Jim Webb? There are tougher whips out there, but tough alone is not what this job calls for. The remarkable thing about Jim Webb is his ability to not only communicate by a glance the fact that he could break a man's neck with his bare hands but also his ability to patiently, firmly and politely get his fingers in the grease and work to establish a bi-partisan consensus. Webb's style meshes perfectly with Obama's ideals of 'a new kind of politics' that seeks consensus rather than division.

Jim Webb as a running mate would make the perfect weapon against John McCain for Barack Obama. And it is those same skills that have made him such a perfect weapon that would also enable him to serve as an extraordinarily capable Vice President, turning administration proposals into reality in both the military and the Senate. Hopefully, we'll get that new GI bill passed along the way.

http://rule-303.blogspot.com/2...

There's just not enough of him.  This calls for some cloning - or something.