And what will a governor who ignores both of these truths go down as? If Kaine keeps up his current path, I guess we'll find out.

Gov. Kaine spelled it out this morning on his weekly radio cast as he virtually called out the local elected politcians and State elected officials as well as those Congressman whose districts contain Wise County are "ALL" in support of this moving forward. The folks were as Kaine suggests "elected" and represent the will of the people or electorate. So it is not just Kaine one should take issue with but also those local officials and those in Richmond supporting the plan.
Kaine appears determined to select two or possibly three selectees if one member indeeds resigns from Board as reported.It seems that that is where his role may end in most of this.

The ones bribed by Dominion? Let's not make them out to be unimpeachable arbiters of the will of the people, shall we?

Evidently the ones who actually live in Wise County and surrounding area elected them to represent them so if you wish to make a charge with regard to "bribery" thats a pretty hefty charge Green Miles.
If they do not represent the "will of the people" then I think you have demonstrated your view of a representative democracy quite matter of factly.
My guess is your view of the so-called "arbiters" would be quite different if they were aligned with your opinion.
Don't ya just love democracy?

as a fuel has not been mentioned extensively. While coal is cheaper than oil right now, its monetary cost is rising rapidly, mostly due to market conditions: that is, China is rapidly building coal-fired plants in incredible numbers in order to continue its rapid growth, and they are bidding up the cost of coal worldwide. Therefore, the cost of running the Wise County plant will rise and so, therefore, will the cost of the electricity it produces, thus comments about keeping expense for delivered electricity to the public are a bunch of you know what. We do indeed need more electricity in our grid, and we do need to modernize our aging electric grid, true--- expect more blackouts and brownouts in any case.

I am told the plant will not add very many permanent jobs to the area, and there is no requirement for Dominion to hire locally in any case, so it is possible the promise of jobs is another public relations fantasy. How many more mountain tops in Wise and elsewhere will be scalped to provide the coal, anyway? Is there a chance the plant could be fueled by natural gas? Geothermal power? Does it have to be coal? How much longer before really, really "clean" coal is in fact available?  Remember, the plume from the Wise County plant will indeed reach all the way to Northern Virginia, so Northern Virginians have a stake in this, too.    

would mean capturing and sequestering carbon on a massive scale. That's probably 10-20 years away, and I'm being very optimistic here.

Burlington Nortern, CSX, Union Pacific, Norfolk Southern and have been wathcing CNBC for the past two weeks you would have seen the massive loads these rail companies are shipping and mostly due to the economies of coal. The numbers (loads) coming into the region are increasing which tends to make me believe more coal is coming from out west and being shipped east. In large part based on what I heard it was the costs of the coal prodcution being shipped from out west were cheaper than here in the east, obviously different types of coal require different mining solutions and of course costs.
The other topic that got alot of focus even today was the whole ethanoyl bust given the current price points. Its relationship to food prices resulting from crops being used to grow corn for ethanoyl got wide play today and the fact that the production costs are now higher than oil and are using massive amounts of water in the plants. Though a cleaner solution the guys portrayed it as not a solution at all in terms of costs.

this makes absolutely no sense.  It is also completely untrue, as almost all of us HAVE been calling on our elected officials to implement aggressive energy efficiency programs.  Finally, why on earth would you have any sympathy for a scumbag company like Dominion (or Massey, even worse)?  That makes no sense at all.

a demand problem (rampant consumption increases) and a supply problem (where we get our energy from).  We need to work TOGETHER on this, not get all antagonistic, regional, and pissy about it if we're going to save the planet's environment from catastrophic global warming (as the science overwhelming says is happening).

stronger clean air quality acts and initiatives by environmentalists and lawyers our the north, starting with the cities of Alexandria and Washington, DC, forcing grid expansion south into Virginia, and westward into WV, western PA and OH.  

Bag state RPS and enact a national or regional RPS to compliment the already existing regional and national transmission policies.  Makes more sense.  

Why on earth would we do that?  Sure, pass a national RPS, but until that happens -- and even after -- why would we prevent states from passing even stronger ones than the fed's?  Or are you totally against the concept of states as laboratories of democracy?

look at the results.  

With rising energy costs and huge US reserves of Coal - we are going to use coal.  Our best chance to make certain that the true cost of Coal get factored in to the cost of energy produced with it - carbon tax, disposal of Mercury into the air, dumping fees for the fly ash, tough clean water regs that prohibit stream fills.  THAT will level the playing field for alternative energy to become competitive.  

Dominion may be a ruthless corporate actor, but most of your fellow citizens are completely happy to do business with them - since they keep the Safeway fully cooled,and powered.  Take a poll and find out how many people in your Delegate district ever visit West Virginia to experience what is being done in their name.  Hell, how many even go experience the natural beauty of primitive camping in the Monongahela NF. The majority of people don't value what is being lost. Especially at the cost of their "convenience" or "safety".

Massey Coal has a history of evil, treating coal miners like disposable machinery, and breaking unions for over 75years.  Long before the current focus on MTR and CO2, they were destroying the environment of the Appalachians, and controlling the legislatures of the region.  They are very adept political donors. Massey people sit in the highest seats of influence in Virginia. What makes you think any of that is going to change - especially with $120/bbl oil?

These people have you where they want you - trying to unplug an electric generation plant. You are not just attacking them, you are attacking their customers, and fortifying their support.  A better course would be to assure that coal energy bear the FULL burden of it's cost. Right now coal buys a free pass out of regulation with political influence, and dumps costly burdens on their neighbors and increasingly, all of us.  Make em pay, they understand money.

But I'm in agreement with you that the best course would be for coal energy to "bear the FULL burden of its cost."  That's why I've strongly advocated a carbon tax, but maybe you've missed the many diaries I've written on that subject?  Maybe you've also missed the many (dozens? hundreds?) diaries I've written advocating solutions?  Again, with all due respect (and I do respect you from your writings on this blog and elsewhere), what have YOU been doing to come up with solutions to head off catastrophic global warming?  How do you advocate that we "make em pay" -- I'm all for that, but try convincing politicians who are cowards and/or totally in Dominion's pocket.

No energy provider should have the ability to destroy the commonwealth of all for the enrichment of a few, not paying the true costs that their business imposes on others, or seeking government subsidy to survive.  America will be safer, and healthier when we provide an energy market that reflects the true cost of all energy; extraction, production, waste disposal.

Patriots don't ask for anything more than liberty and fairness. They gather to sacrifice for the common good. Current energy markets are neither free, or fair. Nobody has a right to cheap energy at the expense of others.

I'm a pessimist on global warming.  I'm also probably the only person in this thread that eats/likes squirrel, powers his crib with PV, is prepared for $200/bbl oil, and a shoreline somewhere near East Broad Street.  I believe people will ride this crazy train right down, all the while praying to their God that Gay people don't get married, asking for salvation from islamofascism. Most Americans can't understand their household expenses, let alone their carbon footprint. A truth being played out in our current transportation funding fantasy.  

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to do something about it, ASAP.  Yeah, it's a long road ahead of us, so the sooner we get going on it, the better.

Consumers understand that more costly energy should be conserved.  We have a marketplace, let's make sure we use it to best effect.

of "externalities" are not included in the price of energy.  That's why they're called "externalities."  This is a classic market failure, and a classic place for government action on behalf of the common good. That's what I'm strongly advocating. I'm also advocating what John Edwards talked about, that our politicians grow some backbone and STAND UP to these corporations.  

Top 50 Employers in Richmond area has Dominion right there in the Top echelon at #6 with 5,362 which is up from 5,114 employees in 2007 just under VCU Health System, HCA, Capital One, Phillip Morris and low and behold Walmart Strores. Yes Walmart employees some 6,173 Richmonders.

Amazing isn't it. take a look at the issues of the day and why we cannot seem to manage to make any headway. Healthcare (2 at the top) , mortgage/credit and finance (credit crisis), tobacco (smoking bans)power company (coal related issues) and then of course retailers pushing foriegn goods(trade policy).

On another note, Lowell I fail to see the rationale for telling 5,362 Virginians who live in the Richmond area their employer is a "scumbag company" regardless of differences we have with them.

that Dominion IS a scumbag company.  Sorry for telling the truth.

we can never criticize ANY company.  For instance, ExxonMobil has 83,000 employees. So, when I call ExxonMobil a scum-sucking company or whatever, I guess that's insulting those 83,000 people.  And when I criticize the Republican Party, I'm insulting the tens of millions of members of that party. Maybe we should just shut down the blog (and all blogs) since by your "reasoning" apparently we can't say anything "critical" about anything.

It si one thing Lowell to be critical of policy or lobbying but to state a company as a whole (remember the Connolly issue a few weeks back) is a "scumbag company" simply because they may be at odds with a political view. Being "critical" mean being thoughtful and insightful and bringing things to the table that change perceptions and introduce ones ideology as a means of influencing change and this rhethoric does none of that.
In fact if you were running for statewide office I am sure your comment would be introduced to the thousands of Dominion Power employees across the state and one of the first insights they would have into your view would be lost given the fact you feel they preside in the midst of a "scumbag company". This tact is why we alienate those who could make change, which takes time Lowell, from within organizations. The people who would from the inside push for greener buildings and office space or god for bid even policy. Sadly, I am all for being "critical" but by constrcutive means not destructive.

for public office and have no intent to do so. One of the reasons I would never do so is that you have to contort yourself like a pretzel to not say anything "controversial." Unfortunately, that often means not saying anything "true," "meaningful," or "critical" of anyone or anything.  Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

So Lowell you troll rated the comment simply for posting factual information regarding employers in Richmond or simply because I raised the question regarding the "rationale" for calling a company scum. I hardly see how this deserves such a rating but thank you for proving my point nonetheless given the fact I did align myself in the "we have with them" camp.

I rated it "marginal," which it was.  

Apologize I think first it was an unproductive rating, but explain why it is the same folks see fit to rate those of us who are in the camp to begin with but simply want a constructive, unifying dialogue balanced with facts that shall help us influence and educate and not personal or corporate attacks.
And people wonder why the opposistions ranks get so entrenched when we talk about the environment. I get it, I realize it is a passionate issue for Green Miles and others and respect that but we need to widen our concentrations in the Obama tradition and reach out to grow this change and not simply discount those among us who seek a more constructive course to reach the same end.

to help us start to solve our environmental problems?  That would be very helpful.

as that's the only real way we're going to solve this.

And would love to forward you some ideas to you in that this thread would not afford a true dialogue but the basis I come from and have had some relative succes through local homeowners associations and the like blilings down to one simple principle:
We would be foolish to push an environmental technology agenda at the outset at taxpayer expense unless the taxpayer can see and grasp both the environmental benefit along with the economic one.
This principle is applied to the efforts of homeowners who are bound to pay dues as part of homeownership. They have a right to guide just how say landscaping, architecture, irrigation for the development are created or updated. Homeowners have an interest in these measures as the economic interest (the dues) and the environmental benefit.
By working with developers seeking zoning approval--see Roseland and Magnolia Green in Chesterfield County--and demanding environmental standards including water conervation practices and green space to say the least as well as design to limit the dependence on the automobile change can be made at the local level by citizen involvelment.
Getting involved in these arenas at the local level is a bit easier to introduce to people than say a major political campaign that sees its grassroots disipate upon victory or loss in the election--not say the support but the level of enthusiasm. These local avenues keep people in the loop and involved and they see the impacts on the communities.
There is so much more but Lowell we have to get around collectively what all of us who are involved in the greater community already have learned and that is when we use lables from that the mainstream has bastardized like climate change and global warming people get murky and reserved becuase we have been program to believe it some politcial distinction---when we approach things from a perspective of environmental stwardship and conservation and come at potential support in that way we see more and more people become less guarded and more importantly engaged. Of course our goal in the end is the same but the path we journey is one of information and education and by enlisting your local Home depot and Lowes and getting workshops on energy efficiency techniques people begin to slowly soak in the greater picture. Its starts like this and result is like we have here in Chesterfield groups of residents seeking watershed standards, erosion control, water quality(phosphorous levels) examination due to excessive development completely take off. It builds one on top of the other as more and more of us get engaged.

is in the ear of the hearer, or something. Corporations are "persons" only thanks to a law making them so, but corporations sure do have some big personal egos working for them, and big egos are enormously sensitive to the slightest, ah, slight. Note how fast GW Bush strikes back at those who have the temerity to disagree even a little bit (goodbye Adm Fallon).  

Could Dominion Power's chief be any less sensitive? I am convinced the only way to whip these boys into line is by grabbing that sensitive part of their anatomy, the wallet.  I would prefer to go for their personal wallet, but if that's taboo, then go for their company's. Carbon tax? Yay. And don't let them pass the whole thing on to the consumer. Any other ideas?

Thank you for demonstrating the point I was trying to make with regard to "constructive" criticism and analysis of the issue.

Carbon tax? Yay. And don't let them pass the whole thing on to the consumer. Any other ideas?

Oh, they can TRY and pass the true cost of their product on to the consumer but in a free market consumers can choose other sources, OR demand products and services that conserve the use of expensive energy commodities.  It was no accident that a non-US corporation (Toyota) brought us the hybrid automobile, or that Europeans now dominate the photovoltaic market that Americans invented.  

in now way, shape or form is our current "market" truly free.  To the contrary, it is loaded down with all kinds of "distortions" - subsidies, both explicit and implicit being the #1 culprit.  Also, as I noted earlier, the market doesn't, by definition, capture "externalities." For instance, in our current market economy, if you cut down a redwood tree and process it into furniture or whatever, it's all a plus in terms of economic output; there's no "debit" or "negative" on the balance sheet for the loss of the redwood tree.  It's a huge flaw in the market system, and one of the core arguments for why we need a government.

One of the reasons I spit after uttering the name of Ronald Reagan is his famous quote: "Government isn't the solution, it is the problem" ...just before he began a systematic dismantling of regulatory oversight.

That more than captures his legacy,a faithless tool of special interests, and his essential blasphemy against our common agency - our government.  

Ultimately would be born by consumers because electricity is not a free market.  If you are in Dominion's service territory, you can either buy what they're selling or take your home off the grid.  As a part of the regulated service, Dominion gets to recoup the cost plus a "reasonable" rate of return.  It is doubtful that much of Dominion's margin would be cut into by regulators if a carbon tax was passed.  So, the burden would fall on rate payers.  And rate payers would have no alternative in the fuels they consume because the state of Virginia ended competition in their 2007 session.  Though, if they had the money, they could buy and install solar PV cells and maybe a geothermal heat pump (I guess those can work anywhere, right?).  But I'm guessing that the majority of people in the service territory aren't sitting on that much cash to afford those options.

I think your earlier point rings true.  Unless and until the people of Virginia start taking action on a larger scale, nothing is going to change.  Dominion, the General Assembly, and the Governor are just acting within the framework that the people of Virginia allow.

Or, it could be a combination of other tax cuts (preferably to regressive taxes without any overriding social benefit) and rebates/incentives for people to retrofit their homes for energy efficiency.

The Mine Safety and Health Administration (known as MSHA) regulates and enforces safety, including many environmental safety concerns, at coal plants.

Katie bar the door!

CBS's Sixty Minutes aired a segment about MSHA's cover-up of a HUGE environmental disaster involving a slurry spill at a coal mine, and the agency's severe retaliation against the civil service mining engineer who voiced his concerns. The streams and groundwater in the area became toxic for the 3 million gallon spill, the land became saturated with the foul smelling sludge, and the engineer who voiced concern was forced out of the government. After all, the Labor Secretary, who oversees that agency, is the wife of a U.S. Senator from the mining state of Kentucky. Yes, follow the money.

My first point is that this can easily happen in Virginia.

My second point:  The hit-man who orchestrated and executed the retaliation against this and other agency whistle-blowers is David L. Meyer, who is now attempting to augment his government pay by running for a seat on the Fairfax City Council.

David Meyer is a key player in the coal companies' efforts at raping the land. Don't let him also rape Fairfax City.

On Nov. 26, 1996, black water from a Consol coal waste dam at the company's Buchanan No. 1 Mine near Oakwood, Va., leaked into old underground mine workings and blew out the other side. The blowout sent coal slurry gushing into a tributary of the Levisa Fork of the Big Sandy River at a rate of up to 1,000 gallons a minute (3.8 m3/min). The 25-mile (40 km) spill blackened creeks and killed fish.

A month earlier, the same thing happened at the Lone Mountain Processing (subsidiary of Arch Mineral Corp.) coal waste impoundment in Lee County, Va.: the spill unleashed 6 million gallons (23,000 m3) of black water into tributaries of the Powell River. The Arch Mineral operation had a nearly identical problem a few months before that.

http://www.wise-uranium.org/md...

Right you are, Bubby. It has indeed happened in Virginia and elsewhere.

The difference is that in the 1990s MSHA actually enforced mine safety laws. Back then, MSHA sent out mine inspectors and engineers to investigate impoundment failures. Consol and Arch Coal were both given fines and ordered to get their mines in line with the regulations.

Today these events are covered up, MSHA refuses to answer FOIA requests and flips off Congressional inquiries, and MSHA's henchman David Meyer fabricates reasons to begin his administrative and personnel actions against anyone in MSHA's employ who raises even the slightest objection or refuses to sign fraudulent documents to assist in the cover-up.