Picking on Hispanics is a "crack cocaine" response. IE   it feels good at the time, But leaves you addicted, and down and out.

100 years ago, they hated Jews and Italians in NYC, Polish in chicago.

60 years ago they treated Afican anericans as something less than human.

They need to be called out at every chance. Personally, I have not spent any of my money in PWC in over a year.

for not enforcing existing law and as was quoted taking weeks instead of the promised 72 hours

Prince William should be billing the federal government for the delay

I had high hopes for 9500 Liberty but it is clear that they have been drawn in too far and have chosen a "side"  They have every right to do so and it is a difficult task to remain truely netural on such an emotional issue but it is no excuse for the increasingly slanted viewpoint.  

it doesn't look like Eric ever presented the other side's viewpoints.  Sure there's a one-on-one with Greg but he's cut it up, and there is not presentation of the actual visual position Greg speaks of on BVBL.  Its all one side, always have been.  

they try and make people who support this measure look ignorant and racist. they are either all bitter old white men or toothless hicks. i doubt that is what the majority of people in prince william supporting this are actually like. on the other hand those who oppose the measure are supposed to seem so "profound".
let's be honest...this measure is less about racism and more about the rule of law. there are also a lot of people that think prince william is strained and has grown too much, too fast recently.

Nice to see that you troll rated me. Running low on valid arguments today? :)

You may want to pretend that people who are anti-Latino are not bigots, but that is what they are. I am not going to participate in the charade of pretending that they are not bigots just because you or someone else claims that you are not.

There are people who are opposed to the currrent situation on undocumented who are decent people. Many in fact. But one can pick them out because they don't attack any ethnic group in particular. And often they show a high interest in the human rights and well being of undocumented workers.

Inappropriate troll ratings and frequent ad hominem attacks are two ways to get banned on this site.  You are perfectly free to state your views, just do so without attacking other people who post on here.  Thank you.

P.S. See our RK blog guidelines here. Please note rule #1: "Users who unnecessarily bash or attack, including ad hominem attacks, any users on the site are subject to immediate banning." Also, note rule #2: "Users that post comments that do nothing but name-call, denigrate other users, or make inflammatory remarks will be warned first and banned if warnings are not heeded."

blatantly false and without merit.  

But if he and yourself need that type of comment in your argument to garnish attention, the more power to you.

I beginning to believe you are more interested in party than principle.  

the substance of the comment?  As far as "party" over "principle," you must have missed the many posts on here which criticize Gov. Kaine and other Democrats on the environment, FISA, many other subjects.

Ad hominem attack on whom? Denigrated what user or made inflammatory remarks to whom?

You said this

By the way, I believe that Eric and Annabel do great work. True, they are humane, "liberal" people, but they also have a tremendous amount of integrity -- not to mention courage -- and always follow the truth wherever it leads them.

Greg looks like he's great at making videos and they both seem to be a very pleasant people.  Being called humane and liberal are good qualities and not something to be ashamed.  But I would not characterize his agenda aimed to advance the views of the owner and his co-sponsor at the location which shares the same name of his project, as "follwoing the truth", especially when it promotes the views of one elderly man engaged in a conversation where is frustrations are shown as the characteristic of what the immigration reform supporters are as a whole.  

On the flip, I feel I have rec'd what I believe are three veiled comments targeting me as being racists because of the position I hold, and if those poster could read, they would know that my views are not equal to BVBL nor HSM.  

But when those who walk into this discussion in the middle sadly make quick and erroneous perceptions, then write assumptions on RK w/o substances backing it up, is symbolic of what is happening in the debate as a whole.  

You posted below your views on immigration below:

the vast majority of Americans (myself included) want a moderate, reasonable immigration reform bill that provides an orderly immigration process, a serious/tough path to EARNED citizenship (e.g., learn English, pay a fine, pay any back taxes, go to the back of the line...), and a border that's secure but not a fortress like the Berlin Wall.

How is your opinion different from the proponents and the framework of the resolution?  I don't see any, and if communities which can't bear the weight of Congress's inaction any longe, and enacted initiatives in the meantime, it will only spur citizens to motivate Congress to finally take on the issue.

Furthermore, I wouldn't stand by and let anyone call you a racist because of your beliefs.  And actually I'm a bit offended that opponents to the resolution, can quickly reach conclusions about those who are in favor of it, simply because they have seen one-sided videos which mischaracterize the greater picture.    

I can't look into peoples' souls and know what motivates them.   Obviously, everyone's got their opinions on what motivates people on both sides of this issue, but I don't see that as a particularly fruitful discussion to have on a blog.

Now, as far as my own views are concerned, I've stated them many times in words similar to those in the blockquote above.  First and foremost, I believe that securing the borders, defining who and who is not a citizen, etc. are all the responsibility of the federal government.  At the local level, what should be addressed is the overcrowding, loud music, and other irritants that can be dealt with locally.  Of course, those irritants could come from whites, blacks, Hispanics, documented or undocumented immigrants.  The point is to deal with the violations of local law (or zoning, or whatever), not to try to take on the responsibilities that the federal government has shirked.

thanks for not calling me a racist because I have a different view.

...and if communities which can't bear the weight of Congress's inaction any longer, and enact initiatives in the meantime, it will only spur citizens to motivate Congress to finally take on the issue.

And if your beliefs for reform are implemented, and undocumented immigrants remain, just how will that be different than what is happening in PWC?    

has been handling things, you can go back and read my gazillion comments and diaries on the subject.  No need to go over this and over this and...

not much difference.  Instead of a few jurisdictions as we have today, the entire nation would be under similar enactment if reform passed and undocumented stayed behind.

Why some communities today and not others?  Because the issue is less of a problem in those areas, while its a crisis in others like PWC.  

Why deflect the matter towards Stewart?  The immigrants were already beginning to leave because of the housing collapse.

to argue with someone who thinks

The resolution was mainly about racisim
people who support it are biggots
its all about targeting hispanics

In all honesty I don't think any argument could convine you otherwise from your views

As far as rating is concerned I think we could all use a lesson on what it means

To me it means how your comments contribute to the discussion.  

You are entitled to your opinion I guess but your word choices enflame a bit to say the least.  

is pointless. The two sides don't appear to be doing anything but talking (shouting?) past each other. Sad.

I have offered my opinion with substance and history on the matter, and all there seems to be in return, are comments labeling racism and veiled hate-speech.  

Making comment after comment to rescind a resolution, because the resolution was generated by people who hate Latinos in their community, is baseless and utterly false.  RK shouldn't stand for it but it appears it will.    

9500 Liberty Project is named after Mr. Fernandez's 9500 Liberty address and what he wants to do with it, despite the city historic ordinances and its building code.  Mexicans Without Border are standing with him while he makes a political statement in contempt with the city.

9500 Liberty Project came to help them and promote their political viewpoint, and now it is here and I'm telling you, I've been watching it since day one, and despite what Stewart says here of late, 9500 Liberty Project does not fairly present the matter.  

This is the crux of the matter, in response, those who believe in stopping it and elsewhere throughout the city and county, are simply called racists!  

And it is the responsibility of those who are non bigoted active supporters of the measure to prove that they are not racists.

You are asking from us to deny a series of realities to grant in the name of manners?

Let's review them:

1. The heart of the policy is to give local police the power to check immigration status and make arrests if legal status cannot be proven.

This power pretty much gives the police the power to racially profile a whole class of people. Since the detainees are presumably going to be deported soon, they lack the money and the time to challenge the procedures of the police. Why would a policy be designed to be targeted at a certain minority group?

2. The policy is costing the county a huge amount of money at a time when local governments would lose revenues due to the downturn of the economy. Yet the policy continues to be implemented. Not only that, but a Republican advocates for a tax increase to keep this program running.

Since Virginian Republicans won't support a tax increase to fund roads, why are they so willing to raise taxes now? Could it be racist populism?

3. Policy supporters still champion it even when its costs has already surpassed its economic benefits. The supporters of the policy are willing to sacrifice the local community revenues through the lost of real estate taxes, sales taxes, loss of small businesses, and increase spending in law enforcement and jail costs.

Obviously the supporters don't have PWC's best interests at heart, since anyone who did would be vocally calling to stop this nonsense (and thank God that there are many in PWC who are).

But others seem quite happy to get rid of the source of all of their misfortunes, thinking that the price that the county is paying is fine.

Finally, I will remind supporters of the policy that the responsibility to show how they are not racists falls upon them.

We know how many anti-immigration movements are fueled by racism, so it is upon the non bigoted supporter to distance himself from the racist contingent who does support these measures.

And acting offended and dodging the issue doesn't is not acceptable.  

1. The heart of the policy is to give local police the power to check immigration status and make arrests if legal status cannot be proven.

This power pretty much gives the police the power to racially profile a whole class of people. Since the detainees are presumably going to be deported soon, they lack the money and the time to challenge the procedures of the police. Why would a policy be designed to be targeted at a certain minority group?

The police only check if they feel the individual is an illegal, but only after they have detained that individual for breaking the law.  

2. The policy is costing the county a huge amount of money at a time when local governments would lose revenues due to the downturn of the economy. Yet the policy continues to be implemented. Not only that, but a Republican advocates for a tax increase to keep this program running.

Since Virginian Republicans won't support a tax increase to fund roads, why are they so willing to raise taxes now? Could it be racist populism?

I'll give you this one.  Passing immigration reform doesn't come w/o a price tag.  1/2 of PWC was built very recently with a large part of it from illegal immigrant laborers.  Had some type the of enforcement been in place, I seriously believe that PWC would not have had this out of controlled growth, houses would not have been so large and so many would not have been built, and they would not have been so affordable.  Perhaps the bubble would not have grown as large.  

Instead we had conservatives pushing low taxes, high growth thru cheap labor and they didn't expect a price for it all, until now.  As much as I am against higher taxes, I believe had reform been in place prior to all this housing growth, the costs would have been greater by default.  Since we still owe the cost, so I support the tax increase.  

3. Policy supporters still champion it even when its costs has already surpassed its economic benefits. The supporters of the policy are willing to sacrifice the local community revenues through the lost of real estate taxes, sales taxes, loss of small businesses, and increase spending in law enforcement and jail costs.

In order for the nation to truly move forward when the economy recovers, there has to be enforced legal immigration reform on the books.  Certain counties like PWC took advantage of cheap illegal laborers.  Consequently the aftermath here is heavy, while most other places the problem is more manageable.  Both sides gained from it while there was no resolution, now both sides suffer.  

The need to push the policy now was necessary because the county can no longer afford the long term affects from federal inaction.  And by doing so now, communities like PWC and others will only spur citizens and elected officials to take on immigration at the federal level, sooner rather than later, relieving these communities of the feds responsibility once and for all.  

The sooner this happens, the better off the nation and the migrant worker will be.  When the economy returns, immigrants will be able to come here more safely, work more safely, live more humanely, and have the services available to them legally, righteously and more timely.  

The federal policy is broken.  Citizens and illegals all took advantage of it, that is the cause of the pain.  With the housing's collapse, employment opportunities are dwindling and even legal and citizens are finding less job openings.  With ICE crackdowns, the writing is only on the wall.  Its tough and painful, but effective medicine is never pleasant tasting.

Obviously the supporters don't have PWC's best interests at heart, since anyone who did would be vocally calling to stop this nonsense (and thank God that there are many in PWC who are).

They aren't going to stop it.  Perhaps they'll fine tune it.  Hopefully those charged with misdemeanors will be allowed to stay if they commit no more than two.  Perhaps the county can better manage this situation by documenting those who are needed here to work in the county.  The reform needs to go after employers who willfully hire undocumented laborers.  The reform needs to enforce the penalties on the books at landlords who allow overcrowding.

The problem with this resolution is, it is not very representative of what a reform bill should look like on a national level, since it falls short at addressing all parts of the problem.  Is this because it was inspired by racial motivations?  I don't believe so, rather it seems to be just an immature piece of legislation, and I believe it was Caddigan who said, "this was a tough resolution, but it is a start."  

If the policy is trying to get immigrants to get in-line so they can come thru the door legally, how is the policy considered racist?  

Finally, I will remind supporters of the policy that the responsibility to show how they are not racists falls upon them.

We know how many anti-immigration movements are fueled by racism, so it is upon the non bigoted supporter to distance himself from the racist contingent who does support these measures.

Housing, taxes, schools, crime, health care, labor rates, economics, driver licenses - these are the issue which are relevant towards immigration reform.    Even for a non-white American, its not hard to support these things.    

Thanks for addressing so many of the issues.

Unfortunately you are still dodging my main point: admitting the role that bigotry has played in this debate.

That was the main point that I made in the comment that you are responding to, yet for some reason you have dodge addressing it.

I am more than willing to give a counter argument to some of your positions (many which I believe are wrong :)), but I won't let myself to become distracted from the original point that I made and which have triggered this day-long exchange.

So let's make it simple so that we can advance the discussion to your points.

Answer this question with a simple yes or no: do you acknowledge that there is a racial dimension to this debate?

that some who have jumped on the bandwagon while this has been playing out, have expressed either thru their frustration or simply because they are, racial comments.  

If someone is saying, now "git your tail back to where you came from", sure that sounds racist and it certainly sounds uneducated and cruel.  But consider who is saying it.  You think those people are how first approached the supervisors on the BOS?  Is that what was spoken at the meetings last summer?

Look as the socioeconomic dynamics of the class of people affected.  Don't let the few paint the picture as you are, and I haven't seen or read anything like this which is characteristic of the agenda or the grassroot movement as a whole.  Did BVBL get ugly there, yes it did, but that's the web and not PWC, certainly actions speak louder than words.  Before all this growth hit the fan some 5 or so years ago, do you not admit that immigrants lived amongst everyone and that racial tension was more or less non-existant?  It was only with the explosive housing growth and all that came with it, that the overcrowding, the crime, the county services and school issues came to surface.  Again, consider the socioeconomics of the class affected.  This isn't happening out in Haymarket, or out in Dulles because those folks are more politically effacious.  The incomes are higher overall.  There are statistically more educated.  It took great stress and tension before folks in Manassas were finally able to mobilize, after frustrations hit the fan.  

Just by the fact you say it has, doesn't make this resolution racist, especially when you haven't presented anything which substantiates the fact.  Are you saying that both Stirrup, Stewart and the others are racists who dislike Latinos?

This isn't about Latino immigrants, this is about undocumented illegal immigrants and those Americans who have taken advantage of a broken federal system.  Now the price for it all has come due.  

What you will see more and more that Americans will be asking the federal gov't replace the illegals with legals and then put in place a structure which to adhere to so they can obtain citizenship.  

This privilege was offered to other ethnic and racial groups in our past history, and it should be properly offered to Latinos.  

The difference is that the vast majority of the latter came across the border, outside of the structured process.  That has to end and those who did have to get back into the line w/i the legal process.  

PWC is at the forefront of this problem, like other areas in the nation.  This resolution is only a sign of that the feds have to tackle the problem once and for all.  

Floodguy,

Thanks for this response, it has been very illuminating, but you still are dodging what I asked you to answer.

You are presenting the case for why some of the people backing the measure may not be moved by racism. Fair enough.

Considering how much you resent being misrepresented, it seems ironic that you that to me. I have already expressed why I believe there is a racial dimension in this issue.

I have also answered right away the questions that you asked me, without relying on sophistry to change the conversation.

I was asking you to do the same here for me: admit with a yes or no if there isn't a racial dimension to this measure.

That will allow us to be able to move forward with this discussion. :)  

Besides, my point was a response to another person who claimed that racism wasn't a force behind this policy.

My complaining about the rating is that this is a cheap way of dodging an issue that a person finds uncomfortable to deal with. So, when there is a lack of good counter-arguments, then  we troll rate.

If you disagree with a point, argue it, don't try to hide behind a troll rating.

n/t

you couldn't even answer my question when you warned me about RK"s guidelines.

I thought your reply was a cheap response, it didn't have anything substantive to it, and didn't warrant a legitimate response on my part.  

Now as I am defending the middle ground, I have had veiled replies now aimed at me as though as I am part of the problem, similar to those who are "racists" who started this "racist" resolution.

The city as demonstrated by the HSM have legitimate problems they were stuck with.  The city couldn't move forward w/o the county.  What measures did the immigrant community take to address or alleviate those problems?  Is it not obvious that something is wrong here? Instead you had a homeowner protest the city local ordinances and then in defiances of that, post his political viewpoints which everyone is rallying aroudn, and now everyone is being called a racists because they are against what that homeowner has done, which is typical of the issue at hand.

And now you are asking me to defend the fact they are not racists?  How about you come up with some examples that they are, since you have already reached the conclusion by which you have made such an offensive remark?

If my comment was cheap, why bother to troll rated?

You want to have it both ways: on the one hand it didn't deserve a response, yet you did went to the trouble to rate it.

You can say what you want, but your actions showed that I was hitting some nerve on you that produced a response. You just didn't know how to handle it, so you decided to troll rate.

I have already addressed why I believe that racism is fueling the policy below, in another answer, so read my position there.

You say that you have suffered discrimination in your life. Can you see how the policy acts in a discriminatory way towards Hispanics? Don't you have any sympathy for the pain of broken families and for the terror of night raids?

Can you see how the policy acts in a discriminatory way towards Hispanics? Don't you have any sympathy for the pain of broken families and for the terror of night raids?

They need to keep their family together, and if they are undocumented, they should return to their homeland with their family intact, and register asap to get back into this county legally, before the waiting list gets allot longer, which I suspect will happen when reform is debated in Congress.  

"Terror of night raids?"  Come on, there is zero threat of this.  Only after one breaks the law and is detained, and if there is probable cause to check one's immigration status will the police do so.  

Question:  Do those who feel discriminated against believe in a open border policy or do they believe they should be granted some form of amnesty?

Come on, you can have empathy on this one. :)

Should I recall how families were broken during the slaves years under what was strictly a legal action? You can't see a connection between that and what is going on today?

Yes, there are night raids. Not done by PWC... yet :), but done by ICE.

Imagine if tomorrow someone broke up your family all of a sudden. That wouldn't hurt you?

I know that you may want to "win" the argument by claiming that they are undocumented, they shouldn't be here, etc. etc. But that is a bigot's excuse or the excuse used by those who have let their hearts be hardened by their arguments.

I feel that you are above that kind of answer, and I know, judging by what you have said in your comments about yourself, that you can exercise this kind of empathy the same way Martin Luther King Jr. could exercise it for the Vietnamese families terrorized during the Vietnam war. :)

Now let me point to here before I move on. You have complained a lot that it is unjust to lump every supporter of the PWC measure as a bigot. Fair enough. You still have to acknowledge he bigotry involved in the issue, but you are basically right.

However, I have noticed that many supporter of the measure have no problem lumping anyone who stands against the policy in the open border policy.

In fact, you have done that yourself a lot in this discussion. And so far, I don't recall seeing anyone in RK ever advocating for an open border policy. Have you? If so, who is it?

Now, assuming that you are not one of the activists behind the measure and you don't draft the message, shouldn't the fact make you doubt the intentions of the leadership of the anti-immigration movement? That they are intentionally poisoning sympathizers of immigration reform from even listening to what the other side has to say? Think about that. :)

Now let me answer you question. No, I don't advocate for an open border policy.

And yes, I do believe that some kind of amnesty must be granted because that is a necessary step to regularizing the current situation.

Let me explain. If we did what PWC is doing at a national level, we would have the same problems that PWC is facing today at a national level.

The U.S. economy is dependent on illegally low wages or legal but low wages to survive. The only workers willing to do this are undocumented workers.

They are a significant sector of the consumer market. They contribute to local governments through real estate taxes paid directly or indirectly through rent.

Our food production is dependent on it. Harvests were lost last season because undocumented workers wouldn't show up to harvest because they were afraid of raids. And the mythical Americans than anti-immigration leaders claim are dying to pick up lettuce never showed up.

The U.S. must give up its dependency on low wages. We cannot force this all of a sudden, or we have a PWC at a national scale.

A sudden unplug of undocumented workers will damage the U.S. economy. The switch must be done gradually.

And I believe that a place to focus is on workers and union rights. If no worker can be exploited, no matter their immigration status, this would be a disincentive for employers to hire undocumented workers.

Finally, and back to the main issue, immigration enforcement can be done in a dignified and humane manner. Let people finish get their affairs in order before deportation. Let them prepare to go back. Let them arrange care for their children if they are going to stay behind.

In my opinion, having anti-immigration insisting on human treatment and family unity is one of the best ways of dispel any notions that they hold ethnic hatred towards Latinos. It shows that they do care about the people, but want the law followed. Don't you agree? :)

if you would have said all this at the beginning instead of using the language of your original post

At the same time, I was following the flow of the discussion, which to me was moving towards attempting to take out the racial dimension of the debate.

Just as it is ridiculous to claim that all supporters are racists it is to claim that there isn't any element of racism involved.

I do admit that I may have overdone my response. Hey, we are  only human :)

will return this evening perhaps?

Peace!

We all need some time to process what others say and go gather our thoughts together  :)

about this issue, you could always grab a video camera, or just a pencil and paper, and go interview people yourself.  You could also start a website, blog, YouTube channel, or group to push your own point of view.  Just a suggestion, seems a lot more productive than constantly criticizing Eric and Annabel for doing all those things.

but when I was a child, I witnessed white men hurl provoked racial insults into the face of my mother, in broad daylight, and in a public place with other people around, no less.

When I was a school kid, I had to defend myself and fight with my bare hands against ignorant school kids who insisted I deserved a physical beatdown, because I wasn't white like them.  

Today as an adult, I from time-to-time I have the honor to hear spoken words directed at me, veiled in prejudice and hatred but always laced with ignorance during the course of my job.  

Perhaps this is you also - I certainly know there are many who experienced worse.  But I am quite familiar with racism and prejudice, and I don't see any in this resolution nor within those who actively pressed for it.

Moreover, responses like yous, and others like Eric B., and Allana, would have better served the Latino community as a whole, if they were made before and approached the problems which illegal immigration is causing to both the legal immigrant community and to citizens as well.  

Walking into this discussion and automatically hopping in bed with the open border and pro-amnesty crowd, claiming anti-immigration or reform policies are racists, OR, videotaping an older frustrated white men act beyond rude towards Latinos, as the symbolic characterictic of reform proponents, definitely demonstrates one's ignorance.  

that's unprovoked...

Alanna, the fouder of AntiBVBL.net) was speaking out against this hate-driven and poorly planned political strategy from the beginning.  In fact, this video shows her lamenting how the issue has divided the Republican party, of which she has been a member for 20 years, forcing her to vote for a Democrat for the first time.

As for myself, it's true I didn't speak out until after the election.  Early videos at 9500 Liberty were seen as commercials for Chairman Stewart and Greg Letiecq.  At that time, we were still learning about the issue.  In response to viewer outcry, we began to talk to people like Sharon Pandak, Father Creedon, and Rev. Boykin.  Before long we came to understand what was really driving the whole thing (and who).  But speaking out in a climate of fear and hatred is not an easy thing to do.

Floodguy, you and many others who post on blogs, including those who threatened our lives after seeing us on YouTube, can operate with the virtual hood and robe that is your internet anonymity.  Lowell and many others, on the other hand, speak for themselves knowing they will be held accountable for their words.

There are many who live in Prince William County, including myself, who have been warned that we could face physical retaliation for our views.  Members of Help Save Manassas who are now "leaving the compound" are afraid for their lives.  Or, perhaps, they're just afraid of being verbally attacked in the public or hood-and-robe square.

I do regret not speaking out sooner.  That's something I still think about today.  In addition to being reluctant to  think the political season (Nov. 6 election) blurred my vision, thinking that prejudice and politics are natural bedfellows, and if you come out and criticize prejudice you'd be accused of "playing politics."  I don't know. give me some time, and I'll think about it some more.  Good question though.

Oh, and as for your other arguments, I've dispatched with them so many times on this and other blogs....  I was wondering, could we discuss this on tape so that I can just use the recording?

Without a question you have racists who have jumped on the bandwagon here.  But if there were problems which existed, immigrant-supporters should have attacked them long ago, and not leave it to the established citzens, mostly white, to push for a resolution which only enforces the law and corrects the problem.  How is that racists?  We keep hearing accusation but how it is racist?  It would be travesty for those who support the action, if the leaders were actually racists, but I don't see that to be the case, but its repeated which only demonstates a position of weakness by those who do.    

Certainly, it can be said the BOS moved too fast with its policy.  There was nothing developed in terms of an intermediate policy prior to this so nothing was in place to learn from or cushion the drastic measures which are now being implemented.  On the flip, there wasn't much being done w/i the immigrant community to correct any of these problems they we're actively engaged in causing.  As one example, look at 9500 Liberty for this.  

Why is it that one owner of a property in old town Manassas can skirt the building code, lose the house because of that negligence, then fail again to abide by the code several more times over a course of time approaching 2 years now?  Am I mistaken here?

And while our area has taken a tremendous hit from the housing collapse and sub-prime crisis, before the resolution was enacted, you had immigrants leaving.  Now we are only hearing the negatives, ie. leaving because of fear.  I find that very hard to believe.  Is the housing and sub-prime problems dodging the Latino communities to a degree their incomes are unaffected here in PWC?

Then all we are hearing is how families are being split and how children may be left behind because the parent(s) is being deported.  I don't know the answer to that, perhaps this is more of a federal human rights issue than a county matter, but still while we discuss this, the root cause to all of this is being sidestepped and ignored.  What concession are being videotaped to correct what your adversaries are complaining about?

Revising the resolution or rescinding it isn't going to bring back the immigrants, no more than it would resurrect the housing collapse and evaporate the sub-prime crisis.  

Tell me what is so wrong with illegal immigrants following the law?  If the law doesn't permit illegals to have a license to drive a car, then follow the law.  If an illegal has a good time at night and has a few, he or she shouldn't cause a public disturbance.  If a home is coded as a single-family residence, then a multiple families should not live there.  Undocumented immigrants are still in the county working because they know they can follow the law and with that, the is no probable cause which will lead to their arrest.  We heard Col. Deane say already and his 1st month's stats support the same.

Perhaps an illegal can skirt by with 2 misdemeanors, but that is only after they become documented.  But a felon, forget it.  But 3 strikes (misdemeanors) and your out, afterall, you came into this country illegally!  But if you believe in open borders, then of course there is nothing illegal here, and PWC does has the responsiblity to see to meet any obligations which you cannot meet yourself.  

                        ----

What's so racists about replacing the illegals with legal immigrants?  Eric, this economy isn't going to stay down for very long.  This country will need an influx of laborers and when it does, we should expect by then it will have immigration reform.  With that in mind, illegals today need to get home and apply for legal status now, so they can be assured they will be called to come to America when the economy rebounds.  

States and localities making laws that discriminate against aliens that did not immigrate according to the rules are infringing upon the 14th Amendment:

1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Notice that the Amendment specifically mandates equal protection and due process for all persons and not just citizens (citizens are however afforded the privileges and immunities of citizens of the several/United States, which aliens/persons are not).

Discriminating against suspect classes is at the heart of 14th Amendment equal protection jurisprudence. In my opinion, it is flat out unconstitutional to make laws that seek to dehumanize or target or discriminate against Hispanic/Latino/Mexican-American aliens. Beyond that, pragmatically, it is counter-productive and harms the public safety.

And calling people 'illegals' is flat out dehumanizing, in my view. Mexico has also been devastated by these 'free trade agreements.' People come here seeking to find work to feed their families and make livings, to have opportunities that they don't have at home. There were essentially no immigration restrictions/rules until well into the 20th century -- if you got here, you were American.

Does America have the right to limit legal immigration and enforce its borders? Yes, of course. But until the US and Mexico figure out a way to deal with the most prosperous nation in the world being next to one with extreme poverty, no fence or wall will ever keep those two markets separate -- just as with illegal drugs, if there's a market demand (cheap labor), supply will find a way to get through that border.

These are big, huge federal issues that no one state or locality can hope to effect, nor would they have the right to. All these types of regulations do is fan the flames of xenophobia and hatred.  

Great comment!

I never disputed none of those points, in fact, I have repeatedly acknowledged this is symbolic of fail federal policy and the U.S. Congress failure to reform immigration.  

I'm not for fences, I'm for border control and legal immigration with a law which enforces it.  

But a broken policy at the border, is hurting communities like PWC far from the border.  An unlike some jurisdictions which have immigrants, those areas are much more developed in terms of its establishment.  Communities like PWC which are fairly new with migrants, have literally have had no time to add address this matters until now.

Coming into this discussion with comments like you have directed at me, is the typical approach which misunderstands the problems in the county.  I'm offended that you have substituted it, with points aimed to distract and replace it with motivates based on one's racial or ethnic makeup.

Liberals have a habit of changing words when the weather changes, such as liberal to progressive, global warming to climate concerns, illegal alien, to illegal immigrant, to undocumented worker, to migrant laborer.  If you find a word is dehumanizing, then I would suggest you quite changing it and simply get used to it.  

This type of strategy doesn't work.  If that was the case, there would be lawsuit after lawsuit filed, just as it was mentioned last July before the BOS voted.

What I think ails opponents to any resolution, and I'm not saying this resolution is perfect, is that because you don't live w/i the community, or close to it, and you are unfortunately ignorant.  All the local media has shown is the few stories of those hurt by the policy, such as the one parent who is incarcerated and children are involved.  Have you ever seen the other side of the issue?  I bet you remember hearing the news when the KKK supposedly dropped leaflets on all the neigbhors front yards in Manassas.

Its quite easy to take a position and through accusation of being insenstive or prejudice when in fact, those involved have gone through great length to ensure nothing of that type enters into the equation.

AntiBVBL and 9500 Liberty including Annabel and Eric have one purpose.  That purpose is to repeal the current resolution.

http://www.insidenova.com/isn/...

Needless to say I am ticked.  So much for objectivity.  I was foolish to actually take you seriously.        

because one of the primary contributors to the anti bvbl site has a connection with the paper, perhaps a friend even.  that was the case when the PWC powerline issue was in full gear as well.  

 Re. Floodguy's "Why Did We Not Speak Up Earlier?"  (0.00 / 0)
Alanna, the fouder of AntiBVBL.net) was speaking out against this hate-driven and poorly planned political strategy from the beginning.  In fact, this video shows her lamenting how the issue has divided the Republican party, of which she has been a member for 20 years, forcing her to vote for a Democrat for the first time.

As for myself, it's true I didn't speak out until after the election of Nov. 6, 2007.  Early videos at 9500 Liberty were seen as commercials for Chairman Stewart and Greg Letiecq.  At that time, we were still learning about the issue.  In response to viewer outcry, we began to talk to people like Sharon Pandak, Father Creedon, and Rev. Boykin.  Before long we came to understand what was really driving the whole thing (and who).  But speaking out in a climate of fear and hatred is not an easy thing to do.

Floodguy, you and many others who post on blogs, including those who threatened our lives after seeing us on YouTube, can operate with the virtual hood and robe that is your internet anonymity.  Lowell and many others, on the other hand, speak for themselves knowing they will be held accountable for their words.

There are many who live in Prince William County, including myself, who have been threatened and/or warned that we could face physical retaliation for expressing our views.

I do regret not speaking out sooner.  That's something I still think about today.  The sad state of our political discourse at the time had blurred my vision, thinking that prejudice and politics were natural bedfellows.  At that time, it felt as though anyone who came out and criticized prejudice would be accused of "playing politics."  I wasn't sure I wanted to do that.  

Oh, and as for your other arguments, I've dispatched with them so many times on this and other blogs....  I was wondering, could we discuss this on tape so that I can just use the recording?  

...and not a failure of policy intent.

I guess we are too assume that opponents to immigration reform are no longer claiming that the resolution is racist-based.

As far as PWC is concerned, the police have simply collected too many illegal immigrants suspected of a felony or misdemeanor, beyond what their agreement with ICE?  Sounds like an easy fix to me.

I think if this progressive community is going to truly be fair-minded about the issue, it need to understand exactly what the origin of 9500 Liberty is.  It is a street address in the city of Manassas and not the county.  Google it and read actual news articles or board meeting notes archived on the net.  Don't turn to one side or one blog or video blog to fill the void.  BVBL, anti-BVBL and Eric are all slanted to their side without question, and none have demonstrated they have appreciated the viewpoints of the other-side.  

Secondly, understand what group is backing the owner of 9500 Liberty.  Its Mexicans Without Borders and you need not need to read Spanish in order to comprehend their policy.  

Who are we kidding here?  Its an insult to this issue if the politicalization of this continues.  It is aggrevating to see a sophisticated blog as RK, get brought into these developments as it has.  One day there nearly nothing, the next day RK has fallen for the side hook line and sinker.  What's is the motivation here, policy or party?

On the flip side, how do you explain this?.  I saw this out early last week but didn't raise a peep about it.  But now its on Yahoo! frontpage.  Is it just a marketing ploy for this company and if so, to whom?  This about that!  The extremists views are fooling everyone.

This is America, not the greater North American continent.  Are we trying to set in motion the basement framework of the E.U. equivalent for our continent?  

And how often must we be reminded, this country is built on greatness from the blood, sweat and tears of immigrants and the rule of law.  If the law is racist, then consider what is so racist about replace all the 12 million illegal immigrants from Central America with 12 million legal immigrants from Central America, if 12 million is how many our economy actually needs?  Enforce labor and housing laws.  Enforce laws the freedom of assembly as well as laws prohibiting loitering.  

An open border policy and amnesty are both proven failures.  

This isn't about collecting new votes from an entire ethnic generation.  This is about the United States of America and communities like Prince William County and the city of Manassas are the testing lab for this issue for the rest of the nation.  

To continue and politicize an issue because opponents have laid claimed to their position, is a pathetic strategy which reaks like defeat.  

and of execution.  As to the motives of the most vociferous anti-immigrant types, let's just say that I don't see them getting worked up about other "rule of law" issues.  Why is that?

By the way, you can throw out red herrings all day, but almost nobody I know of is talking about an "open border policy and amnesty."  To the contrary, the vast majority of Americans (myself included) want a moderate, reasonable immigration reform bill that provides an orderly immigration process, a serious/tough path to EARNED citizenship (e.g., learn English, pay a fine, pay any back taxes, go to the back of the line...), and a border that's secure but not a fortress like the Berlin Wall.

Finally, do I really care about an ad by a company that sells vodka?  Frankly, I find most ads to be idiotic, absurd, even offensive, which is just one of the many reasons why I almost never watch TV or look at ads if I can help it.

Quick question though

How is this a failure of policy intent.  The intent of the policy was to enforce the law of deporting criminal illegal aliens.  Do you agree with this?    

I would argue there was a communication problem that somehow legal immigrants thought that they were going to be targeted somehow

My hope was for 9500 Liberty to help communicate the actual intent of the resolution and to reassure the legal immigrant public.  I was looking forward to supporting legal businesses owners who were facing economic hardships.      

Unfortunatly poltics has seeped in and much like the Washington Post 9500 Liberty is only highlighting a certain set of issues and events which represents a very biased viewpoint.

intent here was honorable OR serious. To the contrary, I believe that Stewart was simply trying to find an issue that might propel him to: a) reelection; and b) more importantly, higher levels politically.  Frankly, that's all I think Corey Stewart cares about; as to the immigration issue, I don't believe he could give a rat's bottom quarters.  Why do I say this?  #1, he pushed this whole thing RIGHT BEFORE AN ELECTION.  Hmmm...fascinating timing there.  #2, he ignored warnings that the resources would not be there to properly implement the program, because he DIDN'T CARE.  #3. Again, it's all politics for Corey Stewart and his ilk, they're just cynically manipulating people here.

By the way, I believe that Eric and Annabel do great work. True, they are humane, "liberal" people, but they also have a tremendous amount of integrity -- not to mention courage -- and always follow the truth wherever it leads them.

How is this a failure of policy intent.  The intent of the policy was to enforce the law of deporting criminal illegal aliens.  Do you agree with this?

Re Eric and Annable

Eric and Annable seem like nice normal enough people

However integrity and truth is laughable unfortunatly.  They setup as a independent documentary series.  However as you can see from my post above they are against the resolution and actively working to overturn it.  All objectivity has been toseed out the window and instead the focus is overturning the resolution.  Its time to call a spade a spade  

was to further his political career.  If the intent had been to deal in a serious way with the issue of illegal immigration, he would have focused his efforts on Congress, given that this is a FEDERAL ISSUE.

From what I can gather, and I watched it come up from the beginning, is that 9500 Liberty started out as a neutral source of information.  Perhaps created by people with a particular opinion, but reported without bias as I saw it.

Then, over time, BVBL began censoring the content posted there [not over time, but from the beginning] and finally AntiBVBL was created to give voice to a different opinion that BVBL, the xenophobic Corey Steward Bootlicker, would remove from his blog.

So, now, is 9500 Liberty and AntiBVBL biased?  Probably.  I haven't spent much time at either site, or BVBL for that matter, but most sites are biased one way or the other.

But, being biased, and censoring content you don't like are mutually exclusive...or, at least should be.

in the city of Manassas, not the county of Prince William.

After ignoring the building code and the city ordinance, the owners neglect's led to the dwelling being substantially damaged by fire in the summer of 2006.  

Since that time, the owner has been in defiance of the city's ordinance because he cannot obtain what he wishes for his property.  In protest he erected a political sign in the middle of his property, which is located Old Town Manassas's historic district facing the Old Town Pavilion.

The Mexicans Without Border group was the first to support him and his political sign all which defies the city and make a political statement in the process against the city's view on illegal immigration.  

The latest on 9500 Liberty Street is, the owner now wants to erect a permanent 220 foot long two-sided wall to paint a mural.  They are now coining the term "Liberty Wall" for the project as though it has some greater significance to the greater immigration cause, when in fact it is actually symbolic of the owners defiance of the city's historic ordinances and building code.  

9500 Liberty Project came into the equation because Mexican Without Borders and the Woodbridge Workers Coalition, or whoever they are called, failed to garnish support which led to the passage of 287g and the Illegal Immigration Resolution.  

Tell me in what other city's historic district, would such shennigans be permitted?  Certainly not in Old Town Alexandria, Clifton, Leesburg or Occoquan.  Not even in the much maligned New Orleans is this type of blatant disregard of the historic district ordinances permitted.  

9500 Liberty, is just a small symbolic reality of what actually exists, and the 9500 Liberty Project has always been one-sided.  Instead of just being supported by the immigrant community, 9500 Liberty Project is seeking the support of liberal and progressive leaning people, and I'm not buying it.

I was refering to the documentary site, and the antibvbl site.

You keep railing on Eric and Annabel, and I was just telling you how it started last year and how it has apparently transitioned, and why.

I will re-post a comment I made yesterday:

We are done exhorting Stewart to change his ways. He appears to be hopelessly enchanted with his image, and like the fabled Narcissus, could ultimately meet his demise because of his own self adoration.

Full text of yesterday's editorial in the Potomac News.

I've said this many times, but I'll say it again.  Mr. Stewart cares nothing about this county--my home for 22 years.  This has been about one thing, and one thing only--his political career.  In fact, he never expected to have to really deal with this issue.  His keen political mind--don't forget he is the self-described "pre-eminent Republican politician in Northern Virginia (Washington Post, Feb 18, 2008)--figured he would be busy running his campaign for Lt. Gov. by now.  Sadly, for him, Mr. Bolling had other ideas.  Now he is stuck between a rock and hard place.  He has succeeded in tearing the community apart, and has no idea what to do.  

A few weeks ago Tom Davis had a Town Hall Meeting in PWC.  I asked him if he agreed with Corey's self-assessment that he was now the pre-eminent Republican in Northern Virginia.  His laughed, and said 'I'll tell you what I told Corey; before you think of running for higher office you better fix this budget mess in the county.'  Guess he didn't listen.

What a joke he is.  And what a sad state of affairs that so many in PWC bought in to his nonsense.  

We are not saying repeal the resolution. We are not saying that the county should not combat illegal immigration. But we are saying that the mean-spirited, divisive way in which this battle is being waged, must stop.

I agree with that, do you, does Eric B., does Lowell, does anti-BVBL?

"the mean-spirited, divisive way in which this battle is being waged, must stop."  Sadly, that may never happen if Mr. Stewart remains as Chairman.

n/t

Those wanting to correct the problems which exist in the county due failures at the federal level, doesn't mean the cause or its supporters are racists.  And this includes promoting mischaracterizations through videotapes.  That's not fair and it only ratchets-up the discussion and takes the the debate to the gutter where it is now.  

Legal immigration has to be implemented to correct all the problems which now exist.  When the economy rebounds and the nations starts a new growth cycle,  a new immigration reform will permit workers to come to the nation safely, live safely, work safely, and get the proper services they deserve timely.  And I hope it will include a path towards citizen.

What I see happening here is only the start of more initiatives elsewhere.  This will only improve the lives of immigrants who will work in this nation in the future, simply because it gets the ball rolling in the right direction towards enacting reform nationally.

I truly believe, conservative Americans like those represented in Help Save Manassas, are folks who want immigrants here, but only under the premise under a legal immigration system which is enforced by law and by government.  Therefore, I do not think it is racists on bit.  

Since we don't have this yet in this country, communities like in PWC have to do something, before a greater problem develops affecting those who are legally here.  This isn't about race, this is about trying to alleviate a slew problems in the county because of a fail federal policy.  If more communities did what PWC is doing, it will put the heat on Congress to act.  

And as much as I am against more taxes, this county grew by half over the last 7 or 8 years off of the backs of cheap labor.  Immigration reform costs money and now that 1/2 of the county residents are living new homes, they shouldn't think there is no price tag remaining.  There certainly is one, but it was never paid.  Furthermore, had immigration reform been enacted prior to growth, the labor would not have been so cheap, houses would not have been so large and inexpensive, growth would have been less or at least more controlled.

There are big plans for PWC on the books, and that type of growth cannot be met without the labor to build it; everyone in the county knows who will build it.  When that time comes, let's make sure have our ducks in order so there is no injustice and inequities.

Lowell, if that was the case, it would have never moved forward.  How could anything in NOVA escape the media if this were truly the founding purpose of this "movement".  Haters and racists like the KKK, certainly jumped on this bandwagon, but last summer no one or no group of any significance was siding with the immigrants, so I'm sure they must have undoubtedly felt persecuted.  But where was everybody then?  Do you not live in PWC?  Do you live in more high-end neigbhorhoods or places isolated from communites and neighborhoods with these problems like Manassas or Woodbridge?  

Think about how immigrants from the south come to this country.  They knew then like they know now it was against the law.  And from this many in the immigrant community here, continue to break the law or violate various ordinances because of this complacency.  A broken policy at the border, created unmanageable problems away from the border, deep inside the nation in communities like PWC.  Remember PWC is fairly new to immigrants, unlike south Arlington, Alexandria, Fall Church or Annandale.  From the perspective of its traffic, lack of services, lack of business to work, shop and eat, over-crowded schools, PWC was already experience unmanagable growth, aside from the immigrant workforc who were building it.  

One day older communties in PWC were as they were, then within 5 years time all this changed because the law wasn't being followed and the gov't wasn't enforcing it.  Government couldn't maintain order because they were overwhelmed, and more illegal immigrants were entering.  

Now the economy is slumping, housing has collapsed, and sub-prime is taking away homes from owners and displaying them and the tenant who occupy them.  This is hitting PWC and the immigrant community w/o the enactment of any resolution.

What happens when a part of society is subjects to issues which lead to low and/or lowered income?  Combine that with a prolonged economic downturn, overcrowding, low employment opportunities, strained supply of county services, and what did we learn in sociology will happen?  

About the ad, I agree, but its not like I mentioned it to prove any anti-immigration position.  It is merely there and I said, to demonstrate just how each side is playing this out?  

I understand your feelings against open borders or pro-amnesty, but do you understand those of Mexican Without Borders?  

If you came here illegally and you break the law, and you get deported - what's wrong with that?  Without question, executing this policy w/i the bounds of something manageable and humane, should certainly be a priority, as well.  

but that's a distraction from Corey Stewart's ill-advised, politically motivated policies.

By the way, the media has consistently and strongly denounced Stewart's anti-immigrant policy, but it moved forward nonetheless.  Obviously, the media isn't as powerful as many people think it is.

was the first and is the lead supporting 9500 Liberty.  

Say what you will about Corey Stewart, I don't care for him either. But timing this resolution with the election is what every politican with that type of power does.  

As for the local media having "power" to change this, well give it time they may succeed.  They certainly haven't shown you or anyone else what these folks in Manassas and Woodbridge are going thru.  All we have heard is their opposing views, the sad stories, and the KKK attempt to come to Manassas.

Look, before this immigration issue got out of hand, no one is denying that no immigrants lived in these communities.  But back then, was there ever a racial problem in the neighborhoods or in the schools?  No, there was no hate then and there's none now.  What people hate is the fact that the law is being ignored and combined that with a failed border & immigration policy, they alone are having to suffer the strain and the pressure in their neighborhoods, schools, county services, and elsewhere, while other areas in the region use these labores to build new developments and buildings.  Everyone was quiet back then and didn't complain because they probably didn't want to be seen as a racist.  Now with these 5+ years which have passed, they realized that the complacency has lead to a fouled up county which allowed these problems to exist and grow out of hand.  

What about these people?  

What about the law?

Lowell, if this happened in your Loudoun County neigbhorhood (I think that's where you are from), and we all know what Loudoun is like, ... what am I saying, it wouldn't happen and it didn't happen, because apparently your community laws are better framed and enforced than PWC.  

The county allowed the expansion, the migrants came to work, the law couldn't be enforced because county was overstretch as it was, and these communities suffered.

Meanwhile, no one on the side of the immigrants suggested they themselves fix the problem w/i their own community - afterall, Americans are complacent and so is the government.

And just how many times do I have to repeat, with all this growth, the collapse in housing and sub-prime has nailed PWC just as hard.  Look at those after-affects?!  

I have said plenty of times, most of the illegal immigrant community would have departed all on its own w/o the resolution.  Perhaps the BOS can revise the language that will allow for registration of guest-workers, and allow no more than 2 misdemeanors to escape incarceration.  If an illegal is suspected in a felony and has children or has 3 misdemeanor, the children treated just as my children would be treated.  

Probably cause means that law abiding illegals can keep living as is, and many are.  

Annabel and I are not journalists.  "Objectivity" is something to attack journalists with.  After the election, the Washington Post asked us to write personal essays in their Outlook Section sharing our personal view and we did so.  A month later I was called to testify before the U.S. Civil Rights Commission, and I did so.  This was the first time I shared my opinion as to whether an increase in ethnic and racial strife has been a byproduct of the Immigration Resolution.

I've never really posted about my views on the Federal immigration issue, but I'd stand by Lowell and what he said above about comprehensive immigration reform.

In terms of any attacks leveled against Annabel and me, better they spend their time cooking up attacks on us than on minority communities in general.  

you have now, for the 2nd time in this discussion, both at me.  

Here's your other citation:

"Floodguy, you and many others who post on blogs, including those who threatened our lives after seeing us on YouTube, can operate with the virtual hood and robe that is your internet anonymity."

Why are you lumping me in with those kinds of people?

I'm not on the frontlines but I have been following this story since day one.  I'm informed and I'm not buying the open border policy that apparently you, Mexicans Without Borders, and Mr. Fernandez believes.  

Floodguy, I've lumped you in, I apologize, and I hereby unlump you.

But don't you feel a little ashamed that you complained about being lumped in in one paragraph, then lumped me in with MWB, open border people, and Mr. Fernandez in the next?

Anyway, I commend you for wanting to distance yourself from anonymous anti-immigrants on other sites who repeat the same talking points over and over again with no adjustments to new information or current events.

A lot of people in PWC are beginning to feel the same way.

You have every right as a filmmaker to presesnt a point of view

My problem is that you claimed to be neutral and filiming a documentary when in fact it seems almost from day one you had a particular viewpoint you were trying to get across

Is this not correct?

Perhaps you should change the name of your project and name it after something that Mr. Fernandez does not own and which Mexicans Without Borders does not co-sponsor.  

Do we not create titles for things by what it represents?  

Are we to believe Mexicans Without Borders believes in controlled borders and controlled immigration?

By the very fact that your project is called what is it, makes you lumped in with them by default.  

As for me, I don't run a youtube project named after Greg Letieqc's or Cory Stewart's address.  I don't participate in BVBL but I do read it, like I read this blog, anti BVBL and others.  (Actually I've posted there a 3 or 4 times since 2005, but it was only regarding energy matters.)  

I'm an informed bystander and am only engaging now, because of what has transpired as of late, with all the name calling & derogatory comments coming from both sides.

Here, I commented to those on the left who make such comments, were doing so out of a position of weakness.  Its not that I do not support changing the resolution, but I think that efforts to do so, riddled name calling at the other side is a failed strategy.  In reply, I have received the same veiled comments, but now they are directed at me.    

Eric, why don't you take a lesson from Barack Obama and engage the other side.  Oh wait you did that already.  You did a one-on-one with Greg, then you cut it up and used the parts of it in a crafted presentation representing your side only.  

Good luck.

I've just read Kipp Hanely's article. Needless to say, neither Annabel nor I were interviewed for that piece. I think this is the first article written about us for which we were not even contacted. I'm not sure what his motivation was, but the "join forces" thing is, at best, melodramatic.

Last year, a number of our videos went directly on Greg's blog, on HSM website, and on Chairman Stewart's blog. We weren't "joining forces" with them. But we did post videos at their request. The God and Gospel video that created such a stir, in fact, was Greg's request. He asked me to post it immediately after our interview and then emailed Annabel a few months later, at which point we obliged. Likewise, I posted a message from Corey Stewart saying he needed people to come to Citizens' Time to support the Resolution.

Where we DID join forces with AntiBVBL was to co-host a party. This party was not meant to overturn or defeat anything. It was meant to help a struggling business stay afloat. It was my idea to include AntiBVBL as a co-host of the party simply to give AntiBVBL some exposure and provide a place for the moderates who created and participate in this blog to meet in person. The party was not advertised as a "join forces" against anything. That article is not accurate.

I don't have time to talk about this more, but we will have to further address this article in the future.

"Where we DID join forces with AntiBVBL was to co-host a party. This party was not meant to overturn or defeat anything. It was meant to help a struggling business stay afloat. It was my idea to include AntiBVBL as a co-host of the party simply to give AntiBVBL some exposure and provide a place for the moderates who created and participate in this blog to meet in person. The party was not advertised as a "join forces" against anything. That article is not accurate."

That paints an extremely different picture

I think you might want to talk to some of the AnitBVBL people to make sure they agree with this account

Annabel Park, Jeff Man, and I have asked for a retraction from The Potomac News, and have sent them the following statement, authored by Annabel and myself:

The 9500 Liberty interactive documentary has been met with controversy from its inception because it was introduced into an election-season climate in which the Immigration Resolution was the primary issue, and the prevailing attitude of pro-Resolution advocates on BVBL was, "You're Either With Us Or Against Us."   Under such a framework, it is easy to understand why the Washington Post, the Manassas Journal Messenger, Potomac News, and 9500 Liberty have all been labeled as "against us" at one time or another.  Under such a misguided framework, the majority of Prince William County and the majority of America could be accused of the same.  But the two options offered under the "With Us Or Against Us" framework are not the only perspectives on the immigration issue.

AntiBVBL was created by a moderate Republican seeking to encourage those who do not fit within the "With Us Or Against Us" framework to add their voices to the immigration debate, without censorship or fear of reprisal.  This is an exciting and much-needed concept, one that we decided to support.  Our first step in doing so was inviting AntiBVBL to co-sponsor a party we threw on April 4th, designed to help a struggling business in Woodbridge stay afloat, and to preserve a sense of community in Prince William County after a period of intense division.

The Invitation to the party was a public one, and remains available on YouTube.

It makes no mention of the Immigration Resolution.  In fact, Greg Letiecq, the moderator of BVBL, posted our invitation on his site and encouraged people to attend.  There was nothing remotely controversial in our invitation, other than to state the fact that businesses are being adversely affected by the exodus of immigrant communities from Prince William County.

It would be profoundly unfair to characterize the party as something it was not.  Those who attended the party were drawn by a message to preserve a sense of community.

The tragedy of the error in the Potomac News article on April 8th is that it revives the "With Us Or Against Us" framework in a time when the community needs to move beyond such divisive tactics and find a way to make wise, collective decisions about the future of this county.

Just as there are various voices contributing to AntiBVBL, the 9500 Liberty filmmakers all have our unique perspectives.  We shared some of them, quite openly, in the Washington Post Outlook Section of December 16th, and in our accompanying video essays.  But we are independent filmmakers.  We have not joined forces with anyone.  This is critically important in this time when the community has been challenged to move beyond battle lines that have divided us in recent months.

From the New York Times:

"Not content to botch immigration policy all by itself, Congress has handed large parts of the job to others to mishandle."

For instance, Corey Stewart, who apparently is in the process of destroying the county in order to save it (so to speak).

The Washington Post nails it:

As a result of the stepped-up detentions, county jails that were already badly crowded are now bursting at the seams. In February, the county's two main jails, whose capacity is 402 inmates, held an average of 664 a day; an additional 275 inmates were sent to facilities elsewhere in Virginia at a monthly cost to the county of some $220,000. To compound the irrationality, it is native-born inmates, often with roots in the community, who are being shipped to far corners of the state, while the immigrants are kept at Prince William's jails, waiting up to four weeks for ICE to get around to retrieving them.

At a time of intense budgetary pressure in Prince William, the crackdown on illegal immigrants may force the county to spend some $3 million a year on transportation, processing and other expenses to deal with jail overcrowding. And that doesn't include the millions of dollars in new costs that county police would incur to enforce the crackdown. That would be a painful financial wound for the county -- and one that would be entirely self-inflicted.

all of this stems from the federal government continuing to drop the ball on this issue.   If ICE would actually follow the 48 hours guideline promised this problem would go away.  I think Prince William has every right to bill the federal government for these costs.  

I think this might actually resolve itself soon.  Right now, there is a large influx of activity because the issue was ignored for so long.  After a certain amount of time the jail issue should resolve as illegal immigrants understand that there are consequences for their actions and they vacate the county.

This is the price that the county has to pay.  does it mean its racist?  Imagine the price tag when federal reform comes!

Inaction would have cost to the county considerably as well?  Besides the damage was already done.  The county already exploded off of the cheap labor and now its over.  Look what is left?  Widespread foreclosures adjacent to overcrowding homes, unemployment, stress in the neighborhoods, all that could spell for difficult times come this summer.  Not sure how long the county could stand for more continued inaction.  

The county board should have addressed this years ago and then they could have managed the growth better, managed labor needs betters, and had the price for it all dispersed more evenly through the new buyers of the "products" the immigrant labor was creating.  Instead the BOS has chosen now to pay the bill thru the backdoor, forcing those who didn't necessarily partake in the housing boom, pay a sum they don't entirely owe.  

But now that you are doubting the wisdom of the policy, the next step is reevaluating the assumptions on which the policy is based.

It is impossible to substantiate the argument that all our problems can be blamed on any one group of people, or that all our problems could be solved by removing them.  Things were couched that way for the election last fall, and the Immigration Resolution was passed as a result.

If I've learned on thing in documenting this story, it's that political campaigns are the WORST time to make policy.

Whatever we believed at that time (and I bought some of it myself), we have little to gain by clinging to such notions now that we're talking about policy rather than politics.

It's time to take a step back, challenge our election-season assumptions, and ask ourselves if our quality of life is helped or hindered by this policy.