I know it happens on both sides, but it's very sad to hear him say that he doesn't 'remember' that he voted for Corey Stewart, but probably did because he's a republican/conservative.

I wish everyone would get involved or at lease informed before they went to the voting booth...and, I wish that man all the luck in the world, along with everyone else in PWC [where I live].

BVBL should be proud.  Good game, xenophobes.

The man remembers perfectly well that he voted Republican blindly, like an automaton, he just didn't want to admit he'd been a fool.  

He will do exactly the same thing again and again until somehow someone convinces him that the Republican Party is not pro-business in the old-fashioned sense.  Republicanism is solicitous only of mega business, globalized business, and sucks up endlessly to Wall Street not Main Street; whenever there's a choice, Republicans unhesitatingly sacrifice small business in order to serve megabusiness.  

The Democratic Party as of this moment in time is the only political entity looking after the interests of the small to middle-sized businesses which are the creation of ordinary middle class entrepreneurs. Megabusiness is run by the super elite, who have nothing in common with the average schmuck trying to improve his personal life by devoting hours to being his own boss through the audacity of starting his own small business. Democrats must get this message across to all these single-proprieter, owner-occupied small businesses, and offer them answers to their current malaise, a malaise that the small business owners themselves have generally not recognized yet because they still mouth the Republican philosophy of the Chamber of Commerce and the megacorporations.  Give them a better philosophy, wean them away from Republicanism, which uses and abuses them.  

the businessman started his operation 6 years ago when housing was revving up.  He's built a customer revenue base comprised of 50% illegals, so he claims.  If part of that 50% are legal immigrants but are leaving, its sad they are.  They are welcome in this county and its under their own discretion to leave.  Chief Deane has given the stats that do not support harassment of legal immigrants.  But any business person who bases a business strategy around illegals, receives no compassion from me and shouldn't from any law abiding person in this county, citizen or legal alien.  

I don't see the racism being claimed by opponents to the resolution.  Of course you have fringe elements who speak with a foul mouth and a dirty mind.  That's the case on every issue on every side.  There's a problem in this county.  One gov't act isn't necessarily going fix the problem, and will certainly require tweaking, but with the housing collapse and the sub prime mess afflicting the illegal community as it does everywhere else, the immigrant workforce was already on their way out the door.  

What we are seeing is the ends of the political spectrum, inflaming matters to attract as many as they can for their own political agenda, and it is on both sides.  Open borders and total amnesty aren't the answers.  Calling in the KKK and making fun of people of color, their habits and lifestyles isn't the answer either.

There is a law and there are inequities being forced onto law abiding people in this county, 50% of which are ethnically diverse.   This is simply a result of failed federal policy from the U.S. Congress, and the county would have to bear a penalty one way or the other.  

People need to understand both sides of the issue here in PWC, before they jump on the bandwagon with their eyes and ears closed.  

The PWC Board of Supervisors will be voting on a budget soon.  The proposed budget has a $100 million deficit -- this with housing assessments that are inacurately inflated (which means they are taxing property owners at a higher rate than they should be, but are still ONE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS in the red).   $26 million of the deficit is to bay for the Immigration Resolution.

So the question is, what impact will the Immigration Resolution have on the future of PWC?  Anything good enough to justify $26 million dollars?

 

I have stated several times, do not give Corey Stewart the credit.  His and Stirrup's initiative wasn't the primary source which drove out immigrants.  Surely there are some who are offended, scared and used it as an excuse to leave, but the wheels of plight were already in motion because 1/2 of this county (or more) grew w/i the last 1/2 dozen years or so.  No doubt we are wasting tax payer dollars, and for some we are making ourselves look like we are unwelcoming to immigrants.  But please, make sure the message is focused on legal immigration and what is needed in order to correct the problems we have created.  We know who built this great nation, and in order to grow and succeed in the future, we will need immigrants to make it happen.  God bless them all, but let's do it right next time, starting yesterday.  

is that people are upset at others for providing services to an obvious base of consumers. That's what capitalism is all about right? It doesn't matter if they are illegal or not. The money still spends the same. Of course the legal immigrants are going to follow. Parts of their family are moving away. If you're wife was illegal and this law came about, you are telling me that you would stay here too?

If if weren't for the tacit approval of the federal govenment, this would not have happened. If the feds actually dumped resources in getting people processed instead sitting on their hands, we might have a different story. But we don't. Instead we get local plans that have their roots in xenophobia and masked as compassion for legal citizens.

...set immigration #s at a level consistent with actual economic needs by various sectors, while also safeguarding current U.S. workers by establishing "living wages" and universal health care?  I know, it's much more easy to rant and rave.

but safeguards are best set by the free-market.  Government controlling factors such as wages and healthcare have no proven tract record anyone should rely on.  Lowell your veil reply about my comments, masked thru your response to Tom, is about as cheesy as it comes.  

I was referring in general to some of the anti-illegal-immigrant people I see commenting at the Washington Post and elsewhere...

I am anti-illegal immigrant and I would strongly argue that most people in the country are.

Trying to paint us to all be like the Washington Post commenters (some of the most crazy people I have ever seen) does nothing to further the debate

It would be like me saying all of you support Mexicans Without Borders or La Raza (a ridiculous statement)

If my wife was illegal, could she not stay because she is married to a legal.  Why not process her through the legal means?

There you go again, belittling obvious concerns which DO exist as being xenophobic, then throwing a veiled insult as though their concerns are just masked as compassion.  If you don't think real concerns exist, perhaps its because you are not living w/i it?  

Obviously you are loyal to one side which on preconception.  This is what ails both sides and leads to the politicization of yet another important issue facing this country.  This is sad.

that stem from in PWC regarding immigration. I will grant you that and also grant you that I am the furthest thing from an expert on the subject. But instead of trying to create policy that could be a salve to the community, Stewart and his ilk created policy that is built on fear and intimidation. Could he not try to act as a conduit between illegals and the federal government?

I honestly believe that this was a way for Stewart to get his name out there as a tough guy so he could run for a higher office (Lieutenant Governor). He would be seen as a stalwart on immigration and play the heart strings of conservatives who want people who don't look like them driven from their communities because it drives down the property values. Now he is stuck holding the bag. Let's see how he proceeds from here.

Isn't there a middle road that goes between the draconian measure that he has taken to kick people out and complete amnesty? Apparently to the PWC Council, there doesn't seem to be. In the example that I gave about an illegal wife, I think that most people who backed Stewart would be loathe to give her a second chance and would tell you to suck it up and move back with her. Illegal is illegal isn't it?

I've read various blogs on both sides and people are actively cheering immigrants, both legal and illegal, leaving. There IS an undercurrent of racism (it doesn't seem like on your part, I actually feel you have some convictions) that is flowing in the veins of some PW residents and I'm sorry if you can't see it or choose to ignore it. The unfortunate thing is that in this time of economic recession, it looks like PW residents are going to be hit harder (at least in the short term, 1-2 years) because of their council's myopic vision of a whiter PW. So I'm sorry if I tossed the x-word into this conversation and it made you feel uncomfortable. It's what I see and I will use it until I see otherwise.

Please don't assume my thought process on this issue. These are observations that I've seen in the blogosphere, media and from conversations that I've listened to. My mind is far from made up in terms of actual policy. But to ignore PWC immigration policy's racial undertones is dangerous.  

"policy that is built on fear and intimidation"

No, policy that is built on enforcing immigration law

"I've read various blogs on both sides and people are actively cheering immigrants, both legal and illegal, leaving."

So using your logic I should assume that when people make outlandish statements on democratic or progressive leaning blog sites they represent the mainstream view... ridiculous

"if I tossed the x-word into this conversation and it made you feel uncomfortable"

yes its uncomfortable because most of us aren't

"It's what I see and I will use it until I see otherwise"

wow just wow

"Please don't assume my thought process on this issue"

Will do don't assume you know mine either

______________________________________________________

Let's work on some solutions.  Your statement does nothing to actually address the problem.      

"No, policy that is built on enforcing immigration law"

It could be done that way without lumping legals and illegals and bashing them with the same stick. There should be a new expression in PWC...DWH (Driving While Hispanic).

"So using your logic I should assume that when people make outlandish statements on democratic or progressive leaning blog sites they represent the mainstream view... ridiculous"

Never said that they represented mainstream views. Just said that I've seen them and quite honestly scare me. Are these views justifiable in your opinion? I never see anyone who is for strict enforcement of illegal immigration chastize these people who actively cheer people's lives being torn asunder. I never see anyone say to people who use racial taunts or nasty stereotypes to stop. If you have examples that contradict me...show them. It's the silence that gives tacit approval.

"yes its uncomfortable because most of us aren't"

Again never said most of you. Notice that I use the word "some".

I don't know why xenophobic is such a taboo word when it's what I see from certain sites and people. I will use it where I deem necessary.  

I think we will have to agree to disagree overall but a couple more things though and maybe even some agreement :-)

"It could be done that way without lumping legals and illegals and bashing them with the same stick. There should be a new expression in PWC...DWH (Driving While Hispanic). "

The only people lumping legals and illegals together are the extremists on both sides.

If you actually look at the text of the resolution and how it is being enforced noone is being targeted for "looking illegal".  Checks only happen after another crime has been commited.  

Legal immigrants have nothing to fear. I strongly encourage them to stay.

"Never said that they represented mainstream views. Just said that I've seen them and quite honestly scare me. Are these views justifiable in your opinion? I never see anyone who is for strict enforcement of illegal immigration chastize these people who actively cheer people's lives being torn asunder. I never see anyone say to people who use racial taunts or nasty stereotypes to stop. If you have examples that contradict me...show them. It's the silence that gives tacit approval."

This is a classic politics 101 exercise where you take comments from people from the other "side" and try to paint them as representative of the other side somehow justifying what you believe or to prove a point.  It actually works quite a bit and hence Its also used as a fundraising technique.

It is also fundamentally wrong, and relies on the lowest common denominator of intelligence.

It is a red herring exercise and removes focus from the actual debate.  Your debate sparring partner is forced to address comments they haven't made.

I will for your sake condone the specific comments you suggested.  

I will also refuse to paint you with the same brush of far-wing comments some have made on your side

condone was the wrong word it should be replaced with chastize (I got my arguments mixed up)

that "internment camps are coming up like they did during world war II". it's too ironic that these people claim their opponents will say anything to scare people...well apparently they will too. sounds like we ought to be preparing for the fourth reich with some of the sleaze coming from these people.  

I didn't make this video.  It seems to undermine your comment and supports what Doug Madison said:

Breaks in middle, cannot restore it