Five Years Ago Today: Byrd v. McCain on Iraq

By: The Grey Havens
Published On: 3/19/2008 11:15:05 AM

Hours before the first bombs fell on Iraq, the definitive pre-war debate took place on the floor of the senate.  Senator Byrd resoundingly denounced the war.  Senator McCain defended the action.  

Who got it right?

Every possible military victory was achieved with the end of major military operations and "Mission Accomplished".  Since then, we have been an occupying force inside of a bloody civil war that the Bush Administration failed to understand or adequately address.  We have lost nearly 4,000 American soldiers.  As many as one million Iraqis have lost their lives.  Perhaps 5 million have been displaced, and the cost to the US economy has been estimated at over $3 Trillion dollars.  That $3 Trillion drain is a key reason why the current economic crisis has been widely described as the Iraq Recession.

Salon today republishes the speeches in full.  Excerpts below...
Byrd:  Today I Weep for My Country

I believe in this beautiful country. I have studied its roots and gloried in the wisdom of its magnificent Constitution. I have marveled at the wisdom of its founders and framers. Generation after generation of Americans has understood the lofty ideals that underlie our great Republic. I have been inspired by the story of their sacrifice and their strength.

But, today I weep for my country. I have watched the events of recent months with a heavy, heavy heart. No more is the image of America one of strong, yet benevolent peacekeeper. The image of America has changed. Around the globe, our friends mistrust us, our word is disputed, our intentions are questioned.

Instead of reasoning with those with whom we disagree, we demand obedience or threaten recrimination. Instead of isolating Saddam Hussein, we seem to have isolated ourselves. We proclaim a new doctrine of preemption which is understood by few and feared by many. We say that the United States has the right to turn its firepower on any corner of the globe which might be suspect in the war on terrorism. We assert that right without the sanction of any international body. As a result, the world has become a much more dangerous place.

McCain:

Madam President, I observed the comments of the distinguished Senator from West Virginia concerning the events which are about to transpire within the next hour or so, or days. I did not really look forward to coming to the floor and debating the issue. It has been debated. It has been discussed in the media. It has been discussed at every kitchen table in America. But I felt it would be important for me to respond to allegations concerning the United States of America, its status in the world, and, in particular, what happens after this conflict is over, which I do not think we have paid enough attention to, perhaps understandably, because our first and foremost consideration is the welfare of the young men and women we are sending in harm's way. But to allege that somehow the United States of America has demeaned itself or tarnished its reputation by being involved in liberating the people of Iraq, to me, simply is neither factual nor fair.

[...]

So I respectfully disagree with the remarks of the Senator from West Virginia. I believe the President of the United States has done everything necessary and has exercised every option short of war, which has led us to the point we are today.

I believe that, obviously, we will remove a threat to America's national security because we will find there are still massive amounts of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq .

Although Theodore Roosevelt is my hero and role model, I also, in many ways, am Wilsonian in the respect that America, this great nation of ours, will again contribute to the freedom and liberty of an oppressed people who otherwise never might enjoy those freedoms.

So perhaps the Senator from West Virginia is right. I do not think so. Events will prove one of us correct in the next few days. But I rely on history as my guide to the future, and history shows us, unequivocally, that this nation has stood for freedom and democracy, even at the risk and loss of American lives, so that all might enjoy the same privileges or have the opportunity to someday enjoy the same privileges as we do in this noble experiment called the United States of America.

Again, see Salon for the speeches in full.


Comments



One Million Iraqi Killed? (HisRoc2 - 3/19/2008 1:34:01 PM)
ORB's estimate doesn't pass the smell test.  1 million deaths over five years works out to an average of over 555 per day, every day, for 60 consecutive months.  Does anyone remember a single day in which over 500 people were reported killed?  How about 1,800 consecutive days when over 500 people were killed?

This war is a big enough tragedy without throwing around ridiculous figures that just don't pass a common sense check.



Well... (The Grey Havens - 3/19/2008 2:37:34 PM)
back in October 2006, we got the report that over 655,000 had died.

and meanwhile IBC reports a number nearer to 90,000.

But, you know... whatever:  if it's only 90,000 dead, that's all good and fine, because we had to find weapons of mass destruction make the Middle East safe for Democracy stay the course aww whatever, why did we go into Iraq again?  



Isn't 90,000 Civilians Killed Bad Enough? (HisRoc2 - 3/19/2008 4:32:08 PM)
That's my point here.  Claiming a ridiculous number of civilian deaths trivilizes the actual loss of life, although I'm sure that was not the intent of ORB.  Unknowingly, they have demeaned the actual people killed by their insensitive inflation.  They are, by inference, saying that 90,000 innocent deaths are not an outrage if they were "just" Iraqis.  To really get people outraged about this war, their reasoning goes, they have to claim that one million Iraqis have been killed.  Personally, that smacks of covert racism to me.

BTW, even 90,000 is hard to believe.  That is 50 people killed every day, seven days a week for five straight years.

I doubt if anyone really knows the real number.  Suffice to say that the truth lies somewhere between what the Maliki government is reporting and what the ORB shills are claiming.



I don't think your math or averages are credible (The Grey Havens - 3/19/2008 4:41:56 PM)
the IBC numbers are the reported and confirmed dead.  They form an absolute floor.

They don't include the ethnic clensing, collateral damage, or deaths that have resulted from hunger and disease that have resulted from the dislocation of 5 Million Iraqis.  

So, I'm game, let's stick with the 90,000 number.  Nothing honors the dead like denying their existence.



Why Not? (HisRoc2 - 3/19/2008 6:41:15 PM)
Frankly, I don't really care if you think my math is credible.  You seem to be intent on worst-casing this, regardless of any logic to the contrary.

But, let me ask you this:  where are the 1 million graves?  Are the bodies hidden in the same place where Saddaam hid his WMD?  And, as you point out, these 1 million graves are additive to all the graves of those killed by ethic cleansing, collateral damage, and disease and hunger.  So where are these millions of buried bodies?



Of course there is worst casing involved (Alter of Freedom - 3/19/2008 9:44:49 PM)
The politics of "worst-casing" is nothing new. I am not implying that Obama is doing this because I do not think that he is and happens to be very principled on the Iraq matter as well as McCain, both men have stuck to the story and are sticking to it and that should be commendable whether right or wrong. Clinton I am afraid is another matter altogether.

What interests me is the complete lack of current coverage by the cable news networks on the current story in Iraq. My response to those whoare are determined to remain "worst-casers" is if the story on the ground was really bad and the same as it was say two years ago you can bet we would still be getting a daily dose from folks like Keith Oberman with casualty counts and footage of car bombs going off all over Iraq. That guy as well as many others could care less about the humanitarian efforts being able to be conducted as a result of the surge. I could care less what camp anyone subscribes to in this fight but what does it say about our media that they seem to only want to cover tragedy or should I say exploit it. Would it harm America to see some of the fruits of those billion spent in Iraq that are actually working to rebuild schools, hospitals, etc. Are there no stories of heroism or courage or humantitarianism? I mean even when Angelina returned they gave her a second soundbite once they found that she believed the surge was showing signs of working on the ground. Anything positive finds it way on the editing room floor at places like MSNBC and even today they chose to run a piece showing those Iraqi veterans marching in opposition on the anniversary which is completely fine but would they ever do a piece on those men who continue to re-enlist or request duty in Iraq who support the mission? Doubtful.



Those who mention "casualty counts" (Alicia - 3/20/2008 12:12:09 AM)
such as KO or Nancy Grace do so out of respect for those who are serving.  

Those who make the ultimate sacrifice AT LEAST deserve to have some blip on the radar of average Americans - when it's become less than popular to do segments on the ongoing occupation.

So to you it's covering tragedy -- to me it's not enough and the media should do more to honor and remember them.

And there's nothing wrong with pointing out that Iraq is an occupation based on lies.  Sweeping that under the rug doesn't help anyone -- and we desperately need a leader who can diplomatically move us forward while bringing our troops back home (and finishing what we started in Afghanistan.)



Sure Alicia, to a point (Alter of Freedom - 3/20/2008 8:30:53 AM)
If the mentioning of casualties is an act of "respect for those who are serving" why not talk to and interview and demonstrate to the American people the daily deeds these men are undertaking as another form of respect. KO may be "respecting" the lost but KO has never embraced those still living within the conflict. KO continually places Iraqi lives lost over our own in his rhetoric and while I find Nancy Grace to be genuine on this issue KO certainly has more motives than "respect". I firmly believe if KO could get away with it he would have a ticker at the bottom of the screen like CNBC running full throttle and if you think KO has any true respect for our men in the military----you are asking me to sit in "suspension of disbelief" at the present time.
As to those who have fallen, I am quite sure that the localities such as mine who have lost Americans in this conflict, war, or occupation( whatever the flavor this month)honor those with real respect throughoput the community. I wonder if KO has taken the time to visit the resting places of any of these fine Americans-without a camera that is. KO who thinks he is quite the sports guy as well should take a page from the Yankees after the trip to Va Tech this week for an exhibition game with the Hokies and listen to real "respect" being displayed.


Agreed n/t (Alicia - 3/20/2008 12:36:42 PM)