Mudcat: Clintons are no friend of "my people out in rural America"

By: Lowell
Published On: 1/30/2008 4:23:53 PM

See The Politico for more:

I can't speak for John. I can say this that, you know, being a southerner, being a rural American who's been completely devastated by the trade policies of the Clintons, I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure that he does not endorse Hillary Clinton.

[...]

Like I said, that when I'm traveling now up through north Georgia, passing towns and be going through South Carolina and turn over into the Appalachians and everything looks like, you know, Sherman went through it but didn't burn thing, I think there is accountability involved there. For Hillary Clinton to continue to talk about the unintended consequences of NAFTA -- they weren't unintended, they were unconsidered. You know, we all heard about the giant sucking sound when they first started talking about this. I just don't think the Clintons have been a friend of my people out in rural America.

Ouch.

By the way, for those of you who aren't aware, Mudcat Saunders was a key advisor to Jim Webb in 2006 and to John Edwards this past year.  


Comments



May want to cross post this to DK (True Blue - 1/30/2008 4:31:43 PM)


See (Lowell - 1/30/2008 4:32:46 PM)
here.


"I Believe NAFTA Should Exist" - John Edwards (SaveElmer - 1/30/2008 4:33:04 PM)

'I believe that Nafta should exist,'' Mr. Edwards told editors and reporters of The New York Times at a meeting yesterday in New York, as he sought endorsements heading into next Tuesday's primary. ''I think Nafta is important -- it is an important part of our global economy, an important part of our trade relations.''

''It's important to be straight with people about the jobs issue -- about trade and jobs,'' said Mr. Edwards, of North Carolina. ''The kind of trade policy I'm talking about -- not an extreme trade policy, but the kind of trade policy I'm talking about -- is not going to save all those jobs. And I think people deserve to know that.''

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f...



This is big!- But Mudcat also helped win VA for Mark Warner (Robespierre'sGhost - 1/30/2008 4:34:44 PM)
I have been watching MSNBC all day and missed this!

Mudcat Saunders was a key advisor to Jim Webb in 2006 and to John Edwards this past year.  

However- Mudcat also helped Mark Warner win in 2001

This is obv. good news for Obama. With Edwards out, and Obama's speech coming before Edwards announcement praising Edwards, as well as the speculation that Obama would offer Edwards Attorney General- I think we will see at least 75% Edwards supportes vote for Obama, and Edwards' delegates going to Obama.

Great catch Lowell, I have had the privledge of working with Mudcat before and he is an honest man that holds nothing back.  



Good point. (Lowell - 1/30/2008 4:35:32 PM)
Thanks.


Mudcat mentions the 22nd Amendment ... (j_wyatt - 1/30/2008 4:35:54 PM)
... as one reason he'll do everything in his power to keep Edwards from endorsing Clinton.

You mean there's a Lurleen Wallace aspect to this?  Gosh, that's just not something that had occurred to most of us.



This is the WRONG message to send today (Providence Democrat - 1/30/2008 4:39:32 PM)
I'm from the rural west and my wife is from rural PA.

We understand what NAFTA has done, and we respect the tone and political gamesmanship involved.

That said, John Edwards took the highest possible ground today.  He would have been a terrific President.  For any of his surrogates to speak over a warm and sincere farewell is not appropriate.  

Even worse, Brian Moran is now paying Mudcat as an advisor.  Brian is also paying Mame.  Both have every right to support who they choose, but they also need to have the maturity to not offend Brian's base and potential supporters.  Mudcat crossed the line today, shame on him for being perceived now as the "angry white rural guy."  

Today, Mudcat hurt Edwards, Obama, Brian, and most of all--himself.



Part of me agrees with you.... (Doug in Mount Vernon - 1/30/2008 4:46:59 PM)
...but on the other hand I'm not sure it's fair to fault Mudcat for those feelings.

Certainly, I don't think the Clintons INTEND to slight or harm rural America.



Prov- (MikeSizemore - 1/30/2008 6:14:17 PM)
Brian Moran is NOT paying Mudcat as an advisor.

First off, all of Mudcat's work is pro-bono.
Second off, you're thinking of Steve Jarding.



OK (Providence Democrat - 1/31/2008 3:28:55 AM)
I heard something different, that Mudcat would be working for Brian.  Already knew about Jarding.    

If Mudcat is an unpaid advisor, then my concern still applies.  If not, then I stand corrected.

Thanks.  



Give Me A Break (Lee Diamond - 1/30/2008 8:58:00 PM)
Some Fairfax Democrats really blow me away.  Does Boss Connolly give lessons on how to distort in this backwater of politics?  Mudcat has absolutely nothing to do with the Obama campaign.  I don't know how his attacking the candidates for the co-Presidency hurts Obama.

Mudcat is just being Mudcat.



Connolly? (Providence Democrat - 1/31/2008 3:12:11 AM)
Why are you presuming that Connolly has anything to do with anything I write or say?  Let alone Jennison or Burke.

You seem wound up way too tight, in my humble opinion.  I never wrote that Mudcat was a part of the Obama campaign.  I did infer that the viewers would perceive that Mudcat prefers Obama over Clinton.  His angry tone even caused pause to Norah on MSNBC (I watched the whole thing live).  

I offered my opinion earlier, based on canvassing in counties from Galax to Winchester, and worried that mis-perceptions toward many of rural VA residents ALWAYS hurt them at the ballot box--there are too many voters in NoVa who are not informed or do not understand what is going on in greater VA.    



You live on a completely different planet from me and Mudcat. (Jack Landers - 1/31/2008 11:22:22 AM)
Mudcat is the angry white rural guy. And as a fellow "angry white rural guy" I fail to see why either Mudcat or myself should be ashamed of our fury at the people who have been screwing the rural poor for generations, at the color of our skin, at the fact that we live out in the country or at the fact that we are male.

Yeah, I guess we're the suburban party base's worst nightmare. Rural, white males who have realized that our future is with the Democratic party and that our issues are 90% identical to those of urban blacks. God forbid that those 2 hordes of the great unwashed join forces, eh? Now that we're all behind one candidate, things are gonna change in this country.

Mudcat is one of the great heroes of the new Democratic Party in Virginia. Largely because he doesn't give a rat's ass what you think of him for being an angry, white, rural guy. He'll just keep on being who he is and getting Democrats elected to office no matter what you think.



Beautiful! (Bernie Quigley - 1/30/2008 4:41:32 PM)
Thanks for this, Lowell. Mudcat has almost folkloric influence North and South; this provides a vital clue to the Mind of the South in our moment. I've sent it to everyone I know. You might spread it around. Mudcat catches the specific gravity of words in the highest Southern tradition. Precision in language - "unconsidered" rather than "unintended" uses language to get to the truth - it pushes language to the poet centers of the brain. Obama has Mudcat, Jimmy Carter, Caroline Kennedy, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy and the majority of major newspapers in the country. I'm beginning to see three parties: The Republicans, the Democrats and the Clintons. If Obama doesn't take this on Tuesday there will be blood on the tracks at the Convention.


THANK YOU BERNIE (Lee Diamond - 1/30/2008 9:08:59 PM)
I like people like Bernie.  I like people who share genuine thoughts and don't posture.  The Clintons have always been a party unto themselves.  It is ALL becoming very clear.

I invested a huge amount of effort in opposing impeachment, but I see now that the Clintons are basically takers.  They are not givers.  Narcissism is really Billy's defining word.  Someone who behaves as irresponsibly as he has does not deserve to be let off the hook.  

Senator Clinton said this week that she is accountable for what is said by her surrogates.  She has expressed no problem with the problematic behavior.   She tried to pass it off by referring to the "passion of all the spouses."  Well, excuse me.  Race baiting has nothing to do with passion.   Frank Rich said in Sunday's Times that the Clintons are not racist.  But, he went on to add that their recent behavior was "sinister."



Hmm....while I agree.... (Doug in Mount Vernon - 1/30/2008 4:44:21 PM)
I wish Mudcat would put it a bit more tactfully.  I don't think the Clintons are AGAINST the rural areas that need so much attention from the government.  I don't think there is any intention at all on their part to slight, harm, or ignore rural issues.

I agree with the gist of his feelings, but I wish there were a gentler way to state it.

Perhaps, the Clintons, in their zeal to win the hearts and minds of moderates, business interests, and certain entrepreneurs by supporting NAFTA and similar legislation, may have ended up hurting many people who might otherwise have been a natural constituency for a Democratic Party administration that seeks to bring resources and opportunity to all corners of America.  Although not intentional, the lack of consideration given to the impact of such legislation on the rural economy has cost them dearly in terms of good people being disadvantaged by them and the associated electoral disadvantages.

It's a bit long-winded, but a little less harsh than "they are no friend of rural America".  I don't believe they really feel that way, even if they did support something as inadequate and unvetted as NAFTA.



More tactfully? (MikeSizemore - 1/30/2008 6:07:47 PM)
Thats not who he is. He speaks for those who, like himself, have been stepped on and overlooked by the big guy all their life. Folks always talk about the need for honesty and you've got it right here. He's speaks his mind and he does so for himself.

Not to mention, he is aiming to make a point about NAFTA, which Lowell put in bold face, in that the unintended consequences were merely unconsidered.



Rarely are the unintended consequences considered (relawson - 1/30/2008 6:38:18 PM)
The path to hell is paved with good intentions, as they say.


Plug your ears Lowell (WillieStark - 1/30/2008 10:43:38 PM)
To those who say Mudcat is untactful. I ask you to go look at Danville, VA and see how the jobs have been ripped out. Look at Martinsville and see the same thing. Then just sit there a bit and see how the anger will fill you and the injustice gets next to your heart and rankles your spirit. I am PISSED too. I am mad as hell that I don't have the chance..AGAIN.. to vote for John Edwards.

FUCK Hillary Clinton..... I won't apologize for that and neither should Mudcat. I can just say AMEN.

I love John Edwards and still think he is the best choice. The second best is Obama. So there, make what you will of that.



Point taken n/t (Doug in Mount Vernon - 1/31/2008 1:47:04 AM)


And FYI (Doug in Mount Vernon - 1/31/2008 1:50:27 AM)
I was an Edwards delegate in Boston in 2004 and love the man.  I am not a Hillary supporter now either, but I don't think it's terribly constructive to portray her as uncaring or not a friend of rural America, because I don't think that's true.


I'm with DiMV and Providence Democrat (AnonymousIsAWoman - 1/30/2008 4:58:46 PM)
And anyway, Mudcat just rubs me wrong.  Don't know why because I know he's done a lot of good things for a lot of excellent people, including Jim Webb and Mark Warner.  And of course his work for John Edwards!

But if I could be a million miles away and never have to hear from him, it would suit me fine.

A minority opinion here but there it is.

p.s., I actually do know why.  I am a populist too and have written about admiring those willing to get into the fray and fight.  But I think his tone is too divisive.  And he's too harsh. And I'm really tired of the rural/urban split that he always drags up.

Poor people in inner cities, blue collar workers in industrial rust belt areas and rural workers all have more in common than they realize. I'd like to see us unite them not keep a wedge between them.



I think your opinion is derived solely from headlines in this instance.... (MikeSizemore - 1/30/2008 6:05:04 PM)
...because Mudcat constantly speaks of the fact that there isn't much difference between the groups you just mentioned. Example:
"There's not 50 cents difference between a Bubba in update New York and a Bubba in rural Virginia. Bubba is Bubba."

His tone isn't as divisive as it is an angry voice for those of his kind who really don't have one. He does a lot of good for the party, and for our Commonwealth; and I would bet my small bank account he'll end up doing a lot of good for Obama before this primary is over with.



Best minds in the Democratic Party . . . (Bernie Quigley - 1/30/2008 6:29:36 PM)
and Mudcat and Steve feel the same about Connecticut-reared and Harvard-Law-School-educated Mark Warner as they do about Jim Webb. I've lived in rural North Carolina (Tobaccoville), rural Virginia (Poplar Camp), rural West Virginia (Shepherdstown) and rural New Hampshire. Probably the state closest to West Virginia is Vermont once you get past the New York enclaves; only Mudcat writes well and wisely about this.  


You both actually prove my point (AnonymousIsAWoman - 1/30/2008 10:47:39 PM)
Sorry, it may just be a difference in tone. But sentences like "there's not 50 cents difference between a Bubba in upstate New York ..." and "...the state closest to West Virginia is Vermont once you get past the New York enclaves..." just irritate me.

I am a class warrior at heart.  I want somebody who will speak up for the poor, the disenfranchised, the blue collar worker in a deteriorating rust belt inner city, the black child whose parents were swept away by flood waters in the lower Ninth Ward, and the brand new suburbanite who just climbed into the middle class and is now losing his home because of a subprime mortage.  

Poverty and injustice are not confined to either the cities or the backwoods.  That is the false dichotomy that I don't like.



I think our hearts lie together. (WillieStark - 1/30/2008 10:58:35 PM)
I love what you just said. It is EXACTLY how I feel about injustice. I think it is about tone. I am just a country boy. Country to the bone. I see that it is not rural vs urban. But rather rich vs. poor. To quote the Drive by Truckers, "To the F()#*ing rich man, all poor people look the same" I just don't feel like making my words pretty just to satisfy the tastes of someone who just doesn't understand what it is to grow up poor, beat down and around uneducated people. Pretty words are just bull$#!# to Billy Joe with his crack showing while he changes the oil in your car. He just wants to know if you are on his side and that you can kick the rich guys ass who is underpaying, disrespecting and generally keeping him in indentured servitude with these ridiculous credit schemes.


What you said, WillieStark! (AnonymousIsAWoman - 1/30/2008 11:21:30 PM)
I read your post above about the jobs being ripped out of Martinsville, etc., and found myself nodding in agreement. You're exactly right and thank you for hearing what I was saying and understanding!


AIAW (MikeSizemore - 1/31/2008 1:01:53 AM)
Arghh! Yall both say what I've been saying!

Why I love Mudcat and John Edwards and why I get angry when I see my hometown, like so many others across this nation, absolutely GUTTED.



Are you in NoVa? (Jack Landers - 1/31/2008 11:31:56 AM)
No offense, but many of your posts seem to focus on events in Fairfax, so I'm going to guess that you are from suburban Northern Virginia?

Look; you suburban folk have enjoyed dominating the Democratic party nationally for a very long time now. But as a rural guy myself, I've got to tell you that we're pretty damned sick of it. Our lives really are very different from yours. We feel pretty much shit upon by rather a lot of public policy that is formulated by suburban types and imposed on us.  

This is why rural voters started voting overwhelmingly for Republicans. Republicans didn't represent us any better than the Democrats did (worse, really), but at least they were kissing our asses and that felt like something.

You want us to win national elections together, you want to be a truly national party, you need rural voters to come home to the Democratic Party. And you can only do that by giving us a voice. It's a voice that is different from suburban voices, otherwise we wouldn't need it. And sometimes you won't like what it says. Like today.

Mudcat is the perfect, unadorned embodiment of that voice. He tells it like it is. If you want rural people to really move over into the Democratic party camp then you're just going to have to live with what we and Mudcat have to say.



Mudcat is quite a guy (relawson - 1/30/2008 6:42:08 PM)
To hell with em Mudcat.  I like a guy who can look you in the face and tell you how it is.


Amen (MikeSizemore - 1/30/2008 7:40:55 PM)
to Bernie and RElawson!


His people? (Johnny Longtorso - 1/30/2008 7:59:51 PM)
What, did NAFTA cause all the political consulting firms to move to Mexico? Are the news networks outsourcing their talk show guests?


That's very funny. (Lowell - 1/30/2008 8:28:48 PM)
Thanks for the laugh! :)


Ha.... (MikeSizemore - 1/30/2008 9:44:03 PM)
You're not talking about your average DC consultant here. Lets see, he's never worked for a consulting firm....but he has lived his life in rural Southern Virginia in an area incredibly hard hit by such policies.

Yup, his people.



Sick and tired of critics of Mudcat (WillieStark - 1/30/2008 10:49:25 PM)
Who don't even know the man and have never once spoken to him in person. I don't know about you but I am sick and tired of wimpy sissy Democrats who have cost us election after election. I think we need a thousand just like Mudcat. Maybe we can get some backbone and fight these SOB's instead of trying to "get along"

You see its like this. Republicans are like snakes. Democrats today are like the folks who say, "Lets live and let live with the snakes". Then cry like little babies when the snake bites them in the ass. We need to stomp the snakes. And we have some snakes in my beloved Democratic party who have sucked up to the corporate teat for so long that they are addicted to it. We need to stomp the snakes. We need to beat them. Mudcat's style of no nonsense ass kicking is just what we need.



Willie (MikeSizemore - 1/31/2008 1:03:49 AM)
I'm glad to know you and call you my friend off these boards.

I just hope Obama takes the role of class warrior now for the rest of this primary season.



Sorry, it really pisses me off... (Johnny Longtorso - 1/31/2008 9:16:41 AM)
when he demands that Democrats respect rural Southern voters, and then stereotypes liberal urban Democrats as opera-going, latte-drinking, Volvo-driving hippies. It's kind of hypocritical.


Yeah, I see no reason to put down other people (Lowell - 1/31/2008 9:22:42 AM)
in order to fight for your people.  I'd actually love to have Mudcat come on RK and talk about his "Metropolitan wing" comments...


Again, I think ya'll missed the point... (MikeSizemore - 1/31/2008 11:06:22 AM)
I think you misunderstand his comment that there is a "Metropolitan Opera House Wing of the Democratic Party" (read: not urban wing, not metropolitan wing; the entire phrase there) and what he means by that is there is a small segment of those who have "no tolerance for anything but their own intellectual arrogance". If you don't believe such a group exists, then, as they say "...walk a mile in another man's shoes".