... just like in Nevada with the At Large precincts in Las Vegas, which were OK until the Culinary Workers' union endorsed Obama. Earth to Hillary... you don't own the Democratic Party!@! Its rules and procedures are not there for the sole benefit of the Clinton machine.

It sad it's come to this, because I think Bill Clinton was a decent president, but I'm really looking forward to the day Obama clinches this so the Clintons can fade into history...

I'm OK with candidates coming down here - they should have done it months ago.  But this is just a sign of desperation.

Bill Clinton has been down here also.

after the polls close, but she couldn't stick around in South Carolina to make a decent concession speech and to thank her supporters for their hard work.  I guess once they've served their purpose, her supporters are invisible to Hillary Clinton.

as Bill Clinton use to say when he was president.  But I forgot this didn't apply to Bill or Hillary.

I mean, what's the problem?

Well, there's a problem with your headline for one thing, which is a bit deceptive.

Yes, there was an issue with seating the delegates, but what does this have to do with that.

Also, didn't Barak Obama run television commercials in Florida? Yes, they were part of national buys, but I wonder how the Obamamites would react were it Hillary who did the same thing.

He ran commercials on national networks--not specifically on Florida stations.....sheesh, this is the kind of dishonesty that is sinking the Clintons, y'all should really stop resorting to it....

I clearly state:

"Yes, they were part of national buys," and simply ask how Obama backers were the shoe on the other foot.

Thanks you for answering the question.

That'd be fine.  But Hillary is intentionally using fundraisers as media events to give false hopes to Florida voters, saying "if you vote for me, I'll make sure your delegates count", which she has no authority to do.  It's campaigning, plain and simple.  And I'm angry the DNC isn't going to do anything about it.

Doug's allegation that I had been dishonest. I wasn't -- I gave all the facts, and fairly represented Obama's position on it, and didn't even make a judgment about it one way or the other. Apparently, if the facts support Hillary, and you state them, then you are, ipso facto, "dishonest."

Dan, I think if it had been Hillary, and not Obama running those ads, many people here would be screaming about how she was scheming her way around the ban on campaigning in Florida, and well, it's the last straw and they just can't vote for her in the general election now. Not you, BTW. Anyway, that's my sense of it.

As for Hillary using the fundraisers as media events, my understanding was that fundraisers were okay, and that Hillary's had been low-key and within the rules in conducting them. But if she is blatantly breaking those rules, then I agree, the DNC ought to do something about it.

Personally, I think she would have been better off leaving Florida out of the mix completely. And Obama would have been better off leaving Florida out of his national ad buys.

But she sure as hell is bending them.  That pisses me off even more.  If she were breaking the rules, she'd have to face the consequences.  By working her way around them, she's more of a snake in the grass.

The Jesse Jackson comments have sealed the deal for me.  I will not vote for Hillary in the primary nor will I support her in the general.  I will cast my ballot with a write-in should she emerge as the Democratic nominee.  I will not reward these type of tactics.  This is a page directly out of the Southern Strategy playbook.  It was a strategy that led to Nixon's talk of a "silent majority"(of racists) and Reagan's denunciation of "welfare queens."  These statements are meant to tap into some of the ugliest feelings and emotions that many Americans hold. I am not accusing the Clintons of being racist but I am accusing them of playing into racist thoughts to win an election.  That is wrong and there is no other way to put it.  Some people can brush this off as just campaigning but I am part of the group that is being directly targeted and I will NOT turn my back.

How does this fit in with the subject at hand?  I think all of these tactics show that the Clintons are willing to burn the Democratic Party to the ground to gain power.  It has nothing to do with the people for them and everything to do with their selfish desires.  I once admired these two but I now think they are two despicable human beings who I cannot support.  Perhaps with a sincere apology I can change my mind.  As it stands now, however, I have no respect for them at all.  

Enjoy your Scalia Supreme Court appointments, continued occupation of Iraq with requisite body bags and filibusters and vetoes of everything the Dems in Congress will try to do for another 4 years.

You take those complaints to the idiots that decided to use the Southern Strategy against members of their own party.  I expected campaigning and I expected some nastiness but I did not expect them to use a group that has consistently supported the Democratic party over the past forty years as a wedge.  I will NOT throw all my morals away and disregard my conscious for the sake Democratic presidency.  I expect the Democrats to expand their margins in both the House and Senate so they would likely be able to check whoever is in White House.  

If you want to support Hillary then go ahead.  It is your right.  I would consider her if she were to be SINCERELY apologetic for her campaigns actions.  As it stands now, however, I cannot support her.

There is a chance (a very small one) that I would be willing to volunteer for Hillary and vote for her, but only if I see a dramatic attempt on her part to make right the wrongs of the past.

Supreme Court appointments, dead soldiers and Marines are far more important than a campaign you don' like. Also, this is not a nasty compaign by any stretch. Wait until the fall should Obama prevail to get a good sense of one of those. Maybe we can even get McCain to draft some '08 grads to continue the fight in Iraq, you know, for the next 100 years as he stated.

I am not a Hillary supporter, BTW. I just am tired of all  crying and whining of Obama supporters who thinks a republican in the WH more acceptable tha supporting th eventual nominee. When you do come to your senses, you will realize that one falls in love in the primary and falls in line in the general. Hillary on her worst days will be better than the pugs on their best.

If you want Scalia appointments then vote for Hillary -- the Republican base is fractured and the only thing that will bring them all together is if Hillary is the nominee.

I am not going to knock you for voting for Hillary and I will not say you are whining or crying when you complain about Republicans defaming Clinton, degrading Clinton, mischaracterizing Clinton, and diving the electorate which are all things she has done in regards to Obama.  However, I cannot bring myself to support her quite yet.  Like I said, expanded Democratic majorities in both Houses should be enough to keep the White House in check.

   

Hi, uva08,

Please take a step back and consider what you are saying.

Bush started the Iraqi War, where thousands of people have died.

What would have been the right moral call? Voting for Gore, which would have kept Bush out of office, or voting for Nader, which helped Bush win?

McCain, the probably Republican candidate, is talking about a 100 year war. A write-in vote is actually voting for McCain.

As much as you dislike Hillary, you must agree that Hillary is better than McCain.

Remember, whatever you decide to do in November, you must live with this decision for 4 years. :)

The Sunday stops were styled as fundraisers, but her airport arrivals were choreographed to ensure it was clear to Florida TV news viewers she was making stops in the state and speaking with the media about the delegate controversy.

link

I guess it depends on what the definition of the word "campaign" is...

Hillary did not go to Florida to campaign.  As other candidates have done on several occasions, she went to a fundraiser and she will not return until after the polls have closed.  She has broken no promises.  It's best not to distort the facts if we are demanding that the media get their reporting straight.

Hillary Clinton supporters are forced to split hairs and make feeble excuses.  Haven't we had enough of this?  Why not just support somebody for whom you don't have to constantly apologize?

for the Clintons' behavior.  More generally, it's always about them.  Despite Hillary's NH "emotion" ("it's not about me...it's about the country" - sniff sniff), it IS about her and it always HAS BEEN all about the Clintons.  That's what we need to move beyond in this country, not repeat it for yet ANOTHER four hears (assuming Hillary could even win a general election at this point, which is highly unlikely after the past few weeks of slash and burn/dog whistle politics).

For example, I just lost every ounce of respect I ever might have had for Paul Begala.  He said on the Today Show that there are "some in the commentaries who just hate [Bill Clinton.]"  He quoted someone who said that "anti Clinton hatred borders on mental illness.  There is an arrogance about pretending South Carolina was about Bill Clinton."  "Why patronize Senator Obama?"

This is an orchestrated campaign of distortion, race-baiting, excuse-making, obfuscation, and demonization of opponents.  We have seen these techniques repeated over and over on this very site.

Here's the Clintonite schtick: the Clintons don't have to answer to anyone, they're the Clintons.  Responsible for all that was good in the '90s, none of the bad.  What did they do wrong?  Give me specifics.  When given specifics, discount them, but not by logical means.  When called out for lies, distortions, and disgusting tactics, do not refute these concerns with logical arguments.  Instead, assert that they result from irrational "anti-Clinton hatred" or "Hillary-hating," or "sexism."  Ignore the fact that those legitimate concerns come from lifelong Democrats who have fought for equality in many spheres and who have repeatedly defended the Clintons in the past.  Point out the way the right has mistreated the Clintons.  Question their very right to call themselves Democrats.  When backed into a corner, when the exchange has gotten to the point where you might actually have to offer some substance, call the concerned Democrat "mentally ill."  Dodge, weave, distort, insult, marginalize. Under no circumstances answer for your own actions or words or those of your candidate, or her husband.

It's not going to work.  And it's too late to change course.

 

by the Clintons' behavior is now "mentally ill."  Sounds like the old Soviet Union or something.  Blech.

Bill Clinton: If you look at Obama's record on the war, you see that his 2002 speech opposing the war is the exception, not the rule, to his stand. In fact, as a Senator, where he could have backed up his position with actual votes, he voted for the war's funding and took little if any action to force the president's hand, such as setting a timetable. His campaign relies on a fairy tale that Obama's judgment on the war was better than everyone else's.

Obama: Clinton says that the successful campaign of an African American is a fairy tale. That is code for an African American can't win.

MSM: Extra! Extra! Read all about it! Bill Clinton injects race into the campaign!

Obama partisans: OMG. I just can't support Hillary Clinton and her husband. They are horrible for injecting race into the campaign.

Clinton: I did nothing of the kind. I was talking about Obama's record on the war -- not his race -- which, like it or not, is fairly open to scrutiny and interpretation, just like Hillary's record on the war is.

Spotter: There they go, splitting hairs again.

Lowell: They're always making excuses.

Bill Clinton
"It depends on what the meaning of the words 'is' is."
*"The era of big government is over."
"It depends on how you define alone"
*"I want to build a bridge to the 21st century that we can all walk across together."
*"When I was in England, I experimented with marijuana a time or two, and I didn't like it. I didn't inhale and never tried it again."
*""I'll tell you the whole story about that budget. Probably there are people in this room still mad at me at that budget because you think I raised your taxes too much. It might surprise you to know that I think I raised them too much, too"
* "Politics gives guys so much power that they tend to behave badly around women. And I hope I never get into that."
*"Usually briefs." (answering the "boxers or briefs" question)
*"*I won't be like George Bush, I'll never forget who gave me a second chance, and I'll be there for you till the last dog dies.*
""end welfare as we know it."
*"I have repeatedly defended President Bush against the left on Iraq"
*"I supported the President when he asked the Congress for authority to stand up against weapons of mass destruction in Iraq."
*""There is no more clear example of this threat than Saddam Hussein's Iraq."
* "A lot of wonderful people love their country and hate the military."
*"there can be no 'them' in America. There's only us."

Hillary Rodham Clinton
*"This vast right-wing conspiracy that has been conspiring against my husband since the day he announced for President"
"It takes a village"
*"I suppose I could have stayed home and baked cookies and had teas, but what I decided to do was to fulfill my profession which I entered before my husband was in public life."
*"I'm not some little woman standing by my man like Tammy Wynette"
*"I'm not going to have some reporters pawing through our papers. We are the president."
*"I'm undaunted in my quest to amuse myself by constantly changing my hair."
*"If I want to knock a story off the front page, I just change my hairstyle."
*"I have to confess that it's crossed my mind that you could not be a Republican and a Christian."
*"In the Bible it says they asked Jesus how many times you should forgive, and he said 70 times 7. Well, I want you all to know that I'm keeping a chart. "
*"I believe in a zone of privacy."
*"We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good."
*"Probably my worst quality is that I get very passionate about what I think is right."
*"The American people are tired of liars and people who pretend to be something they're not."
*"We must stop thinking of the individual and start thinking about what is best for society."
*""Who is going to find out? These women are trash. Nobody's going to believe them." -on Bill Clinton's bimbo eruptions
*"If I didn't kick his ass every day, he wouldn't be worth anything." -on Bill Clinton

We just completely disagree.

Hillary Clinton as the anti-war candidate.

is being "clever."  It's so obvious, a blind person could see it a mile away.

Your summary of what Bill said seems clear enough.

But the problem with your portrayal is those remarks were not made in isolation--there were other remarks besides "fairy tale", my friend.  And they did CLEARLY refer to the race issue.  They have been trying to portray Obama as just the "black candidate" for a while now.  If you're going to deny that, well then, frankly, you're in denial.

Obama's campaign never responded with anything that you could quote precisely that says anything like "an African-American can't win" and you damm well know it.

is there any word about republican early voting in fl? it would be telling if we are close or beat them in turnout without even comming to the state