your links'not working, man.

Democrats need to reach out to moderates and find a place for them in the party.  The country is sick of all the bickering and wants leadership on tough issues.

I hope that Potts continues to fight for sensible policies for our state.

Can't say I know a darn thing about Republican caucusing.  All I know is that we have a sane Senate Education and Health committee, thankfully chaired by a reasonable and rationale Russ Potts.  So, with a what I see as a "sane majority" of nine -  Potts (R), Saslaw (D), Lambert (D), Houck (D), Lucas (D), Howell (D), Quayle (R), Edwards (D), and Whipple (D), all that hate-filled garbage that people LIKE Black (emphasis on "LIKE" coz it won't be Black himself... he's going down Nov. 8) spew out.

Conaway:  My attitude is that, while Russ Potts would be more than welcome in the Democratic Party, he should stay and fight to move the Republican Party in a more sane, moderate direction.  But I agree that it could be uncomfortable for him.  - Lowell

So, when does the party-switch parachute get rolled out to Potts by you guys? Honestly, he's going to have an uncomfortable 2 years if he tries to caucus with the GOP, even the pro-tax ones. The Repubs have been picking Dems off for years - a la Virgil Goode. Isn't it time that you returned the favor? Plus, Potts has done quite an effective job at attacking and frustrating the Right. At least if he runs for re-election and loses in 2007, the DPVA will have made a game attempt at snagging an otherwise GOP seat.

-- Conaway

Whoops, fixed now. Thanks for the "heads up." - Lowell

I'd like to see this commercial.

"You know what really scares me?  Sexual predators.  Bob McDonnell's former campaign chairman is serving a seven year prison term for soliciting sex from a minor over the internet. Bob McDonnell hangs out with sexual predators.  I don't trust him."

get your hankies out liberals! McDonnell is gonna cruise past your pitiful attempt to make a liberal look moderate! HAHAHA!

I hope one of these guys sings to save his own skin and that they all go down!

McDonnell is apparently a personable guy face to face, and most conservatives, as we have observed in other circumstances, will give a pass on "minor peccadillos" to a fellow conservative who spouts "family values."  In other words, all your suppositions and juxtapositions mean nothing to most Republican voters, who will forgive almost anything for a fellow conservative. Hypocrisy, thy name is Republicanism.

with regard to Abramoff, the correct term is "bagman".

House of cards, Culture of Corruption... If only we'd get a good stiff breeze to take McDonnell down before Tuesday.

A vote for McDonnell is a vote for the Culture of Corruption to cross the Potomac.

I strongly doubt any of those Republican incumbents have ever had the Post editorial page's support in the past, so I'm not sure what this editorial changes.  Democrats endorsing Democrats is not news. It is when they go against their knee jerk instincts that people pay attention.

"OnBackground":  Same old same old.  The Washington Post -- the largest circulation paper in Virginia -- is completely written off no matter what it says?  I just wonder if Republicans wrote off the Posts's support for NAFTA, CAFTA, the war in Iraq, Tom Davis, Dave Albo (in previous elections), and Jim Mason in this one.  By the way, when was the last time the Washington Times endorsed a Democrat?

Just to add a couple of thoughts:

1.  Mr. Hurst is very personable, smart, and a real fighter.  He has the potential of being a fine Congressional candidate.  He could bring much-needed energy and integrity to the office if elected.

2.  Mr. Hurst is personally motivated in this race to make honest government / election reform a top issue.  He has a strong record of fighting for honest government to support any criticism of the Republican Culture of Corruption (tm). 

3.  If you liked the Englin campaign, if you liked the Roemmelt campaign, you'll love the Hurst campaign.  There's the potential for this to be like Englin's "Camp David" but for a national race.  I'd encourage any dedicated activists in the Northern VA area to take a good look at Hurst.  He will do good things, and may do great things. 

With his positions, his expertice, his candor and his campaign manager, you can expect fireworks from Andrew Hurst.

Andy Hurst threw a spectacular campaign kick-off party last night.  Progressive Virginians owe it to themselves to check out Hurst's candidacy.  He's the real deal. 

Talk him up, volunteer in his campaign, make a contribution.

Andy Hurst.  Something Different.  Something Better.

www.hurstforcongress.com

Mr. Hurst has an excellent piece on his website called "Camp Congress."  It is satirical but right on target.  Tom Davis also got money from Adam Kidan, another of Abramoff's associates.  Don't forget that Tom Davis was also at the NRCC when Michael Scanlon gave $50,000 and they got in trouble for paying Ed Buckham improperly.  For the first time since he took offcie, Tom Davis is definitely vulnerable.  Go get 'em, Andy!

Davis is about as Moderate as George Allen, okay?  He's just done a very good job of pretending he is.  Hurst has got a lot of momentum after the Kaine victory.  If he wants to take him out, he's gonna need some Kaine and Warner power.  If he gets it, though, I do see the slight possibility of an upset.

I'm excited about Andrew Hurst's campaign.  He's had his website up for much longer than any of the other candidates this year and I read not long ago that he's already raised no small amount of money.

Also, I understand Tom Davis is thought to be next in line for some higher office and it would be great to see those plans messed up by a loss in 06. 

I am very excited to see Mr. Hurst enter this race.  Your point about hustling is well taken.  Tim Kaine and Mark Warner have shown what Democrats can do in this state if they simply ENGAGE the Republicans.  If Warner and Kaine will spend some time with Mr. Hurst this year then I predict Mr. Davis will be in for a shock.

Now how about Cantor: he's going to get dinged by the Abramoff scandal (heck, he may even get indicted).  I'm still waiting for someone to declare their candidacy for the VA-7th Congressional District.

Keep Raising Kaine!

Andrew Hurst impressed a lot of people on primary day this year (yes, he started his campaign against Davis THAT long ago, which is great!) by showing up at polling places all over the 11th district with bottled water (labeled with Hurst for Congress) for all of the volunteers working the polls.  It was a unique, memorable, and thoughtful way to introduce himself to Democratic activists all around the district.

The fact that he hired James Walkinshaw says a LOT about his strength as a candidate.  This is great news!

Maura:  You're absolutely right, this IS great news.  Andrew is going to surprise a lot of people, mark my word.  Including Mr. Devolites Davis!! :)

These robocalls and lit drops at the last minute (I refer to the bogus Russ Potts mailout) are typical Howell last minute frauds. I hope to God the public media tells the voters what's going on at the final hour. We should all call WTOP and the Washington POST (in NoVa; if you are elsewhere in Virginia, choose your own local outlet with the widest audience). Insist that this is not just one more political business as usual and no worse than anything the Dems are doing. Insist they tell people to be wary. This is disgusting, actually on a par with the Hitler ad in its own way. the Republicans have so debased the entire electoral and political process, deliberately turning people off so they, as one of their operative said, "slip anything by," it's no wonder decent people have been turned off and DO "let anything slip by."

Much better and more accurate than Scott Howell's ads morphing Max Cleland into Osama bin Laden. Why, after a moment, I couldn't see any difference between the two images as they morphed into each other. Goodness, does that signify something?

Oh that slick Doug!!!!  Nice move on their part, obviously most arent going to look into it like you

More shenanigans from the Kilgore ilk.

http://dailykos.com/story/2005/11/6/1728/24977

Well I don't know much about SW VA since I live up here in Fairfax County, but I just got a strange robo-call from the "Honest Leadership for Virginia PAC".  The call was Tim Kaine's voice, but it really pissed me off as a liberal social voter.  Tim stressed how he is a conservative on matters of personal responsibility.  That he would support partental notification and ban partial-birth abortion, oppose gay marriage (that really pissed me off as a gay taxpayer), and some other drivel.

Basically, it irked me until I realized that the Honest Leadership for Virgnia PAC could be some GOP outfit.  Anyone know anything about them?

Anyway, I know Tim can't support gay marriage---it's Virginia and he's running for election, but I also know Tim supports my rights more so than Kill-more.

How would a GOP group be authorized to use Tim's recordings?

It sounded like the radio commercials they play in SW VA that Tim has on his web site.

They are OBVIOUSLY trying to suppress Democratic progressive and liberal turnout in NoVA.  Sorry, Jerry, buddy, it's gonna take a lot more than your dirty deceptive phone call to keep me out of the voting booth on Tuesday!

Ironic, the "Honest Leadership for Virginia PAC" would be so deceptive....

has anyone tried to get letters to the editor published around this?

how about an article in local media?

Sharif: Yes, we're trying.  Now we need everyone to try, so the "so-called liberal media" actually does what it's SUPPOSED to do -- cover major political corruption scandals.  Frankly, if they're not going to do their job, we might as well just ditch them and turn everything over to the bloggers.  What do you think? :)

Thanks for getting the word out, even in Norway people are blogging about this-
http://erikmedk.blogspot.com/2005/11/eye-on-politics-12.html

Also a link from the front page of Daily Kos.

Hope Virginians are reading about this.

The only to stop this last-minute slime attack is to GET IT ON ALL THE LOCAL STATIONS.  Make a BIG, BIG, BIG deal of it.  If you do, it'll backfire on  Kilgore and his supporters. 

Guess Paperless Diebold machines aren't in place to fix the vote in Virginia so they have to trick people into voting for their guy by making them think Kilgore is actually a Democrat, whose values most reflect the citizens of Virginia.  What a sorry bunch of thugs.  I hope you succeed in getting this all over the local media.  Has anyone contacted Keith Olbermann and Chris Mathews?  (kolbermann@msnbc.com  and hardball@msnbc.com)

How stupid do you have to be to make these calls from your own home? (That's a rhetorical question.)

Clancy, Mary & Sean
1251 Dartmouth Ct
Alexandria, VA 22314
(703) 751-0612

Some nice, but misguided kid called from Generation Joshua and told me to go vote at my Dad's precinct (we have the same name).  Generation Joshua is an organization for home schooled kids and looks as if it is run my Michael Farris.  Of course, they were supporting the GOP ticket.

Dear Friends,

While I was making phone calls on behalf of Tim Kaine, my 18 year old son received a call that began "I am Tim Kaine. . ."  Having got the sleazy mailer disguised to appear to be from Russ Potts on Friday, it seems that Kilgore continues to be able to push the bar still lower, apparently unencumbered by any discernable moral code.

However from the "uplifting calls department",  my 15 year old son received a real call from Kathy Kaine inviting my wife to the rally Monday.

It is impressive that Tim's parents and siblings are pitching in and willing to undertake the least glamorous tasks along side the other many worker bees. ---

Is any of this really all that surprising? Is there really any reason to give the Republican votes again?

Answer: No.

If anyone has a recording of this phone message, please contact NBC4 News Tip Line at (202) 364-NEWS and ask for Matt.  They are looking to put this on the local news tonight.

What about a complaint to the Federal Communication Commission or the Virginia Attorney General's office--although who knows if either would enforce anything?  Dont these count as harrassing or fraudulent calls?  There are federal statutes against those sort of automatic calls, with an exception for political calls but not fraud.  There should be state laws as well.  1-888-CALL-FCC and (804) 786-2071 say the websites, although it is probably better to complain in writing so it cant be blown off so easily. 

The PAC?s website (www.honestleadershipforvirginia.com) is no longer online.  I wonder how long its been down?

This isn't the first time the "Honest Leadership" PAC has resorted to dishonest tactics.  They were also resposible for the attack ad titled "Another One" which showed clips of John Kerry and implied that Kaine raised property taxes as Mayor of Richmond (Kaine actually twice cut property taxes as mayor).

Unfortunately, in an election as close as this one, this sort of sleazy campaigning can tip the balance.  All the more reason for people to volunteer with their local campaign HQs to help counter the Republican voter suppression tactics.

--
http://fifthdistrict.blogspot.com/

I got one of those tonight, too, in Arlington.  Something seemed quite off about the call - glad folks are catching it.

Dan: Good catch...fixed. Thanks. - Lowell

Here is what I sent!

Are their any laws against deceptive advertising.  Jerry Kilgore seems to be activitely trying to mislead voters with flyers purporting to be from Russ Potts and robo calls which say "I"m Tim Kaine and...

Does the Board of Elections monitors these ads and have any authority to penalize the perpetrators because they have the potential to mislead a lot of people and after the election it is a little to late to say "if only we knew those ads were false"!

I will try to call on Monday because I am so upset with these tactics.

name & phone number
removed

Call 800 552-9745.

Chairman: Michael Brown
Vice-Chair: Barbara Hildenbrand
Secretary: Jean Jensen

http://www.sbe.virginia.gov/cms/About_Us/Index.html

Anywhere to email the state board of elections to complain about the misleading ads?

Seems to be the standard operating procedure for Kilgore.

James: What was "bogus" about the Club for Growth mailer?  It was WORD FOR WORD from the Club, blasting Kilgore for not taking the Taxpayer Pledge or spelling out his "true position on taxes."  Also, the Kaine campaign said clearly in that mailer that it was a message FOR Republicans, not FROM Republicans.  The Kilgore mailer says it's the "2005 Official Democrat and Progressive Voter Guide: Governor of Virginia." What the hell is THAT?!?

Harvey said "kid called from Generation Joshua...an organization for home schooled kids and looks as if it is run my Michael Farris. Of course, they were supporting the GOP ticket."

'Tis run by Mike Farris, as part of his bid to install a Christian theocracy in America. GJ mobilizes fundie teens to volunteer in RRR campaigns--especially those endorsed by Farris.
Farris'so-called Homeschool Legal Defense Association (HSLDA) is another arm of his assualt on America. He uses fear to sell membership to nervous parents and rake in easy money that he funnels (at least $5 Million) to his fundie school, Patrick Henry College, marketed as a "homeschool college" (an oxymoron) but actually the admission criteria is one's ability to profess belief in Jesus.
Additional Farris tools include Madison Project PAC, HSLDA PAC ("a multi-candidate federal political action committee, formed to allow HSLDA to engage directly in the political arena"), and his Congressional Action Program (recruits and trains an "army" of volunteers "who live within commuting distance of the nation's Capital" so they can personally influence Congress on matters of importance to HSLDA's full agenda).

Please note that "homeschooler" does not equal "wingnut." Farris' sort comprise only a small segment of the homeschool population, although, just like in the broader political landscape, it is the most well-funded, well organized and loudest.
Homeschooling was started in the '60's by school reformers like John Holt and Ivan Illich. It was not until the '80's, when changes in tax laws made parochial schools less of a moneymaker that the fundies made the switch to homeschooling.
Today's homeschoolers represent a diverse population, and many of us are as progressive as the founders of our movement. We just don't seek publicity, scream at the state, try to undermine public schools and so on like Mike Farris' followers.
For more about Farris' Home School Legal Defense Association, see More Information About HSLDA.

Also, their address is:

1251 Dartmouth Ct
Alexandria, VA, 22314

Just in case you want to stop by in person...

Dear Lt. Governor Kaine:

I am a Maryland resident so, unfortunately, cannot vote for you tomorrow, but we are rooting for you ALL THE WAY up here in Baltimore!!  BEST OF LUCK tomorrow--my next e-mail to you will be to GOVERNOR Kaine!!

Sincerely.

Diane & Friends and Family

Bring DEMOCRACY back all across the USA!!

Remember those kids who would cheat if they couldn't win fair and square?  They grew up to be Republicans.

I spoke with a woman at the State Board of Elections, and she suggested calling the Commonwealth's Attorney first thing Tuesday morning.  She said that the calls don't violate election laws, but we should ask if they violate other Va. laws. 

I also contacted all local media outlets and called the Kilgore campaign to complain. Talk about nasty!  I hope this gets the media attention it deserves.

They attack Kaine on his record and our response is to complain about his tactics.  Thus the attack gets repeated in the media.  Sure the media may report in unfavorably to Kilgore but they still repeat the attack in doing so.

They will stoop to anything and unfortunately Democrats will not win until they are ready to fight fire with fire.  We shouldn't be attacking Kilgore's campaign tactics - we should be attacking his record, his ideas or if necessary his character, or lack there of.

I will be voting straight D tomorrow, but until Democrats stop whining, grow some cahunas and realize that campaigns are wars and not spirited debates between gentlemen(or gentlewomen), we will always be the winey losers who sometimes are luckily enough to defeat the weak Republicans, aka Republicans who are willing to play by our rules.

Amazing.  This guy, Ben Wood, who works at Patton Boggs, LLP, with Sean Clancy, the Honest Leadership for Virginia PAC's Treasurer's husband, just called me and demanded that "Mr. Clancy's home address be removed from this blog entry." 

He also said that "the FBI was investigating this and had positioned security outside the Clancy's home."  Apparently the Honest Leadership for Virginia PAC's address is Sean Clancy's home address and is publicly available here on the VPAP website, but they don't want anyone to know who they really are.

He suggested that by us asking folks to drop by and say "hey" that we were some how encouraging violence against the Clancys.  They are the ones with the endorsement from the NRA, right? 

In other news, he also said the Clancys have been contacted by over 100 of our faithful readers.  I assume you all are respectfully asking them to run a positive campaign.  If so, keep up the great work. 

(Public email addresses for Mr. Wood and Mr. Clancy are available on the above linked pages.  Feel free to email them and tell them how you feel.)

You guys are dorks.  Putting someone's home address on your site is just wrong, and I'm guessing you probably know it.  Encouraging people to stop by the person's house will, of course, lead to confrontation and violence.  Grow up, not just for your sake, but for others as well.

I only wish there was a Democratic blog conspiracy.

But there IS a "vast rightwing conspiracy."

Many, many years ago we used to snicker at Senator Knowland of California, and called him the Senator from Taiwan because he was so insistant about there having been a conspiracy to support Mao and the Chinese Communists after World War II, which was why in his mind  we "lost" China and Chiang Kai Check ended up fleeing to Taiwan. I think seeing conspiracies everywhere (the Devil at work) is the mind-set of right wingers, and so they thought a conspiracy is the way to get power, and they did just that...decided to out-conspiracy the conspirators.

Tom:  We had that up at 3:14 PM. You posted your comment at 3:26 PM.  See, we don't mess around here at Raising Kaine! :)

I am tired from all the calls, but really cannot waste the opportunity to tell Bob McDonnell to "BITE ME!"

And tell the Republicans that the expression freedom of speech and expression is no conspiracy at all!

One more time - Bob McDonnell - BITE ME!

Re Jen's comment, I'd like to add, "What she said!"

Craig- The 41st went for Bush by 0.3%

Bulova isn't a pickup -- it's a hold of Chap Peterson's seat that he picked up against Republican Jack Rust back in 2001.  But still considering that this is a swing district this is a very encouraging sign.  Hee and I love it that all those smug neighbors with Mason signs won't be so smug tomorrow morning ....

GO MARSDEN!!

I know Michael Golden would probably not win in a district that gave Kerry a 10-point win, but it's nice ti have a Democrat representing me (finally).

Don't forget the absentee ballots.  Again, this is anecdotal, but I have heard there is an unusually high number of absentee ballots in some districts. Anything on non-Northern Virginia areas?

Looking at the map you can see better TO in the Dudley race, the Janis race, the Lohr-Fulk race, the southside Tyler race.  Prince William, Stafford and Spottsylvania have the worst commuting issues by far. Virginia Beach amazes me, and while it was 37 percent yesterday I checked and it was only 39 percent last year, when another "favorite son" was leading the Republican ticket. That used to be vote-producing engine for Republicans. And what else is there to do in Highland County?  If all Susan Swecker's kith and kin turn out, that's all you need.

One of the Democratic numbers crunchers told me he projected a total TO about 2 points below 2001 and he nailed it.  About two out of three Virginians of voting age did not participate yesterday, and that is not good news for anybody. 

Highland (61.3%)- Creigh Deeds area, very small county, also the home to Susan Swecker his manager.  That can make a difference in a county this small (size of a small FFX precinct)

Goochland (58.9%)- always one of the better turnout in Metro Richmond- and it had people turning out for both sides, Tim and Bill.

Falls Church City (58.4%)- always good turnout, and part of Leslie Byrne's original House of Delegates district

Clarke (57.8%)- No idea

Hanover (56.9%)- Similar to Goochland, also usually has good turnout.

Used to live in Manassas Park.  Old part of town is mostly working class former Dixiecrats now turned Republican.

The city was almost bankrupt in the early 90s, then sold some land to a developer who built upscale homes.

Their school system was once at the bottom of Virginia's list; don't know about now.

Lots of spandex and Harleys.

I think 2008 is going to be a moderate versus a moderate. Americans are tired of extremist views. They see them in terrorists every day and they're starting to see them in politicians every day.

I doubt any new Parties will be formed that will win anything. Raising money to compete against the DNC and RNC is a tough project to start.

But i think the progressive, centerist approach to governing is going to become the new thing even if all these folks stay in their current Parties.

I think you mean to say it the other way around... McCain could help Warner out!

:-)

Would be hard to pinpoint...but the negative advertising was more fierce in some HOD races than in others - Prince William certainly comes to mind...

I don't know enough about how the statewides targeted the nastiness, or where all of the HOD races were on the "ugly scale", but negative advertising is known to do one thing incredibly reliably: depress turnout.

Another possibility: intensity of GOTV efforts, which (unfortunately) doesn't always map on perfectly to contested leg races.

Interesting to ponder on, in any case!

John:  What's McCain doing with the CCC exactly?  I had never heard of that one.  If he's involved with them, that would be fatal to my support for McCain, that's for sure.  But I did some searching on Google and couldn't find anything...except one place where CCC condemns McCain....

John:  We could go back and forth on this all day, but I would just add that you should consider the context, McCain being in the Republican Party.  If he were totally independent, he would probably move even more to the center.

F.T.  Thanks.  And you're right, it DOES sound like fun!

Paul:  Glad to be of assistance!  :)

John:  Check this out from the Hotline.  After discussing McCain's endorsment of George Wallace, Jr. and also Wallace's speech to the CCC, it says:

But the NAACP once honored Wallace, Jr. with a Freedom award. And Wallace, who switched parties a few years ago, has built solid relations with black leaders in AL. By several accounts, he's involved in outreach to black voters in AL on behalf of Republicans. Observers of the state politics say he's been a careful steward of his father's legacy, warts and all.

John Weaver, a top McCain adviser, tells us: "George Wallace Jr., is an enlightened progressive leader who always speaks of tolerance and carries forth his father's views at the end of his life. He has strong support across the racial and political spectrum."

I suggest we get off the McCain kick and the Alice In Wonerland fantasy of a third party in time for success in '06 or '08. Where's the money coming from? Where's the time? Where's the agreed upon political philosophy? Forgeddabout it, boys. What we have to do is get the most progressive program and the most pragmatic good manager possible on the Democratic side, and blog him into the White House. We actually have excellent possibilities already under the big tent. Yeah, I know, the resume padding monkeys always seem to slip under the tent edge and screw things up. That's what we should be worrying about, planning against, and wipe 'em out. Pleae don't fritter away what we had, the beginnings of a viable, progressive approach to kick the bums out. A third party on the cneter-left is EXACTLY what the Republicans would want; it's a Trojan horse. All this discussion is just fine, but I hope to hell you're not really serious about starting a third party, much as it would be soul satisfying to do it--- that apporach is just a form of road rage on the American political highway. I pretty much agree with Mr. Wilmore.

Somebody is going to grab the "center" in American politics and I hope the Democrats are the ones to do it.  If they can not get over the fighting long enough to realize that governing our country is more important than pet issues then somebody else will take the center and return our country to sanity.

Matt: Yeah, McCain was being pragmatic and even Machiavellian, no doubt.  But that doesn't mean he was wrong...the bottom line is that he will at least need "the base" to stay relatively neutral and not go after him like they did in 2000.  It's smart politics, but it tarnishes his "straight talk" image.  It's a conundrum...or is it a paradox? :)

John:  Yeah, I was VERY disappointed in McCain during 2004.  That was pitiful, endorsing Bush like that.  I want the McCain of 2000 and the "Straight Talk Express" back, and I want it NOW! :)  Seriously, though, I understand where you're coming from on this.  The leader the neo-Bull Moose doesn't have to be McCain 2005, but it DOES need to be someone like McCain 2000.  The post was mainly aimed at generating discussion, which it seems to have done! :) Thanks.

What Conaway said!! :)

You know, it wouldn't be such a bad thing for the country if there were 3 parties - 1. the Green Party for leftist Dems who are totally pissed, 2. a rightwing social conservative or libertarian Party for the extremes of the GOP, and 3. and a larger party of current moderate Dems and Repubs along with centrist indepedents.

Lowell is right, the Dems are not seen as the party of reform, and the reality is that they're not. "Bush must go!" and "bring home the troops" is not reform. On the other hand, Mark Warner and his type of Dem is.

-- Conaway

John:  Yes, I have checked McCain's positions on the issues at Project Vote Smart.  Turns out he gets a 50% positive rating from the liberal "State PIRGs Working Together," a 50% from the NRA, a "B" rating from the liberal "Citizens for Global Solutions," and a 56% rating from the environmentalist League of Conservation Voters.

Also, according to the National Journal - Liberal on Social Policy's calculations, in 2004, Senator McCain voted more liberal on social policy issues than 44 percent of the Senators.  Also in 2004, Senator McCain voted more liberal on economic policy issues than 49 percent of the Senators.

In other words, McCain is a moderate, right down the middle...

J.C.:  With all due respect, I'm not convinced that the Democratic Party is -- fairly or not -- viewed by most Americans as the party of "reform."  Also, I sure hope it's not "fantasizing" to speak of moving the Republican Party back to the center, and the Democratic Party back to its TR/FDR/JFK/RFK roots.

I agree with you on your second-to-last paragraph - if you don't like the way things are, get involved in our Democracy.  If not, it simply cedes the ground to the extremes on both sides, the special interests, and the full-time political operatives.  I'm sure none of us want that to continue...right? :)

Paul:  Why do you always here that Ariel Sharon is a "war criminal?"  Perhaps because he's fought in a lot of wars, and also because he was found to be indirectly responsible for the the Sabra and Shatila massacres of Palestinians, carried out in September 1982 by Lebanese Maronite Christian militias in then-Israeli-occupied Beirut, Lebanon.  Sharon was barred from serving as Defense Minister, but not as Prime Minister. For more on Sharon's multi-faceted (and morally mixed) career, click here.

Anyway, the point here is that sometimes it takes an Ariel Sharon to make peace. And sometimes it takes a John McCain to rescue his party (and America) from the right-wing extremists.

The United States already has a reform party: it's called the Democratic Party.

Fantasizing about a mythical "Third Way" will only result in a repeat of 2000: the split of the Left tossing the election to big government, big deficit, intrusive right-wing Republicans.

Let's be very clear about this: while most of the responsibility for the current state of our country rests with George W. Bush and his cronies, there is no way they could have taken office and entrenched themselves without the help of Ralph Nader.

From a certain point of view the war in Iraq, the destruction of our personal privacy, the erosion of our civil rights, the attack on the independence of the judiciary, the rising poverty rate, and so much more, can all be traced to Ralph Nader's narcissistic entry into the 2000 race. 

The Democratic Party needs to work to really be the inclusive big tent we all talk about, but we also need to educate voters about the two party system and the disasterous consequences that result when voters with a left-leaning philosophy bolt the party and throw away their votes.

The 2006 elections present us with an historic opportunity to stage a revolution at the polls much like the conservative counter-revolution in 1994.  The American people are desparate for principled leadership that can restore our national honor and prosperity.  But that opportunity can easily be squandered if we allow fantasies of third parties to fracture the progressive majority in the United States.  And in the end, that is what we are talking about: the clear majority of Americans are progressive. 

"Progressive" is the word stenciled over the entry to our big tent.  If you are a liberal, or a democrat, or a lefty, or a reformer, or you're just pissed off at what Bush and company have done to our country, you belong in our tent, now.  Don't show up the day before the election expecting to find a candidate that perfectly reflects your own  particular brand of left-of-center politics.  You need to volunteer early to get your voice heard.  Work on a primary, run for the local school board, support local candidates: not just the big, obvious marquee races.

If Teddy Roosevelt were alive today, he'd be a Democrat.

John:  What I'd REALLY like to see is a breakaway movement of Republican moderates from their party, or an exodus of the far right-wingers, so that we could have a sane center/right party in this country instead of a bunch of radicals...

Lowell Feld is raising excellent questions, and it's a good time to ask them. In my book the effort to create a Third Party now, by shouldering into the abandoned middle ground, would be a righteous pursuit. While it would lack the usual passion of strident right- or left-wingers wearing blinders, it would have much more potential to become a real player, if it ever really got underway.

By "underway" I mean this Neo-Bull Moose Party would have to field candidates and win elections on the local and statewide level before it tried to win a national election. It could have national leaders, such as a John McCain or Joe Lieberman, but the first efforts should be directed toward winning somewhere. Anywhere.

Face it: Without the focus of winning specific elections, Third Parties look too much like a blustery flock of poseurs to John Q. Public, who doesn?t follow politics avidly. But the Bull Moose Party that Feld imagines would need to appeal to just such a guy, or it wouldn't work.

It probably wouldn?t take winning many elections for the buzz to make such a political party the darling of the media, and quite attractive to many voters who are disgusted with how the two-party system has been working/not working for them.

If that happened -- the Bull Moose win a handful of congressional races, mayoral races, state assembly, etc. in 2006 -- such a new political party would then have unlimited potential to grow rapidly. Hey, when you stop to think how hard the Republican and Democrats would try to kill off such a thing and what extremes they?d surely go to, it already sounds like fun to me.

I want to hear him take an actual position on Iraq.  I'm not holding my breath.

I want to hear him take an actual position on Iraq. I?m not holding my breath...Nell

I think he has one already, but it may or may not be the position you prefer. I think if you go to CBS News and see last week's Face the Nation interview you get an idea of his position. He is not in favor of an immediate withdrawal and he believes Dems should worry more about getting us out vs why we went in in the first place..he does however maintain that the Bush loonies have no plan and have not been forthright with the American people. I agree with his position somewhat (he and I may disagree on other issues but its a free country) and like you, he will have to stake a reasonable position in the future...I expect a Nixon 68 stance, but then I might be wrong!

Tim..how could you say that?? I used to see you on the DraftMarkWarner site and I thought were a supporter? Why say such a hurtful thing..he looks how he looks and he looks OK. That comment was kinda low..if the folks in VA who can smell a fake from a mile a way don't mind how he looks or how he talks (and VA is pretty much a microcosm of the US), I'd say we shouldn't mind either. Are you voting based on looks and voices..if so, I'm sure there are politicians like that who can't get elected dogcatcher.

Let's hope and pray that Democrats around the country realize how much Warner will crush ANY Republican opposition.  I would like to see him choose someone like Wesley Clarke as a runing mate to make up for his lack of foreign policy experience.

  Mark Warner will carry all the states Kerry did, he'd take VA, and I feel confident he'd take Ohio(Republicans are a mess there), Iowa, New Mexico, Missouri(Blunt and Bush are very unpopular there) and Nevada(Northeasterner transplants populate the once desolate the state).  In addition, Mark Warner would be extremely competitive in Florida and mildly competitive in North Carolina, Louisanna and Arkansas (Democrats outnumber Republicans in both states they just don't vote party lines all the time), and possibly Georgia.  In any case the first set of states would get us a win. 

WARNER 2008!!!

Warner needed to get a face lift before he went into politics and wasn't smart enough to get it.  He needs some major cheek and facial bone polishing and so someone needs to actually hit him with a shovel..... and the only way that's going to happen in my mind is if he really angers his wife.  So say something really stupid at the dinner table Mark because your Presidential hopes ride on you getting better looking and developing a less nasally voice. 

Thank, Lowell.  You da man.  How'm I gonna live without RK for the next 10 days!?

Josh:  The picture has been changed per your suggestion.  The shovel has been put away at least through 2008! :)

Two points:

1.  I love Mark Warner.
2.  That's the worst picture of him I've ever seen.  wtf?  did somebody hit him in the face with a shovel?

Mark Warner's visit to NH will be on C-SPAN's road to the White House this Sunday Nov 20th @ 6.30 PM EST and 9.30 PM EST. Pls watch

Josh:  No, the question is, what are we going to do without YOU the next 10 days?  Cuz seriously, YOU da man!! :) - Lowell

Paul:  On Warner, that isn't an "elephant in the room" because we KNOW the Republicans will distort the records and pull a "Swift Boat" or "Willie Horton" or "Hitler" on any of our candidates.  As far as I know, Mark Warner has no skeletons in his closet.  The tax issue is a stupid one for the Republicans to use, considering the fact that an overwhelming REPUBLICAN legislature passed the tax package in question... 

Nice analysis. My thoughts are:

- Since you've chosen to include Gore, you're probably underrating him. If Gore's in, then he quite easily is #2.

- Bayh and Feingold seem to be too low. I confess, I'm not sure where I'd put them, but I think they probably beat out Richardson and Biden at this point. Also, I would disagree with the notion that the midwest basically votes Democratic in presidential elections - OH,IA,IN,MO,KS,ND,SD account for a large part of the midwest. Not to mention the consistent swing nature of states like Wisconsin and Minnesota. If we're going to win in '08 we will need a Midwest strategy - and at the very least a midwestern VP. That is unless our party grows some cojones and nominates Richardson which would make a southwest strategy viable.

What are your thoughts on how this plays out if Hillary doesn't run? Does that make Warner the frontrunner? Is he capable of sustaining frontrunner status for 2 years?

Paul:  Good one on Richardson, I forgot about that.  Not sure about Gore being a "lefty nut" now, as his criticisms of the Bush Administration have been pretty accurate as far as I can tell.  Boring personality isn't much of an elephant, IMHO, but "comes off as arrogant" could be. Thanks.

Al Gore elephants in the room:

Widely seen as a lefty nut now...has the personality of a board.

Joe Biden - benefits: The media loves him
Minuses: Personality. comes off as arrogant.

Richardson - There are rumors that he has a "Bill Clinton problem"

Bayh - Disagree with you there. The midwest/"culturally conservative" border states are the new battleground. Bayh WOULD be able to win Indiana (as long as he stayed true to himself and didn't take a turn to the left)
Problems: His personality is stiff.

Clark: Should run for governor

Vilsac - the interesting thing about him running would be that Iowa would become a meaningless caucus (unless people chose to fight for second place or something)

Warner's elephant int he room:

The GOP will most certainly run ads with him saying:

"I will not raise taxes"
followed by:
"Warner signed the biggest tax increase in Virginia history. Warner is a liar."

That'll be their ad. And they'll run a "trust" campaign. "Can we trust this guy?" And they'll make up a bunch of other stuff.

I think the fact that Mark Warner won't be holding any office in the two years preceding the primaries could actually help rather than hurt.

For one thing, he's already started his new PAC, Forward Together (http://www.forwardtogetherpac.com). If the PAC is well publicized, it'll help him to establish his platform.

Second, he'll have tons of time to spend in the early primary states. The key to winning the nomination is securing wins in the early states. Fortunately for Warner, Iowans aren't the most liberal bunch and they tend to vote for the most "electable" of the bunch, which Warner likely will be.

Third, Warner has a record of tangible success that Clinton (and other legislators) can't claim as easily. As Governor of a state, Mark Warner can claim a lot more of the successes that happened under his watch than a Senator can. After all, when Senators are successful in accomplishing a goal, there are at least 50 others who joined them in doing so. As a chief executive, voters, whether its justified or not to do so, attribute more to a Governor.

Forth, Mark Warner is a Southern Governor. Retrospection shows Democrats that running a popular Southern Governor is a formula for success.

Fifth, Warner can self-finance to some degree. This helps. Period.

Sixth, Warner isn't a typical partisan politician. His first office held was the Virginia Governorship. Not only does this mean that he doesn't have much of a "paper trail" to attack, but also could serve a breath of fresh air to Democrats tired of partisanship and political games from their leaders.

Seventh, we're going to work pretty freaking hard to nominate Mark Warner. Draft Mark Warner has been online for quite a while (http://www.draftmarkwarner.com) and my organization, Young Voters for Warner (http://youngvotersforwarner.blogspot.com), is just getting started. Hopefully, we'll be able to spread the Warner message.

The key to the nomination for Mark Warner is name and platform recognition. I'm confident that if they know what he's about, Democrats, even many who don't agree with Warner about everything ideologically, will realize that he's their best shot at reclaiming the White House.

Ysabael: Thanks, and good questions.  I agree that these ratings are a bit arbitrary, largely based on name recognition at this point in the game.  I also agree that Al Gore would be VERY high if he decides to run, but most likely he's not going to which is probably why his rating is relatively low.  As far at the Midwest is concerned, I wonder if being from Indiana helps in South Dakota and Missouri...maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, I just don't know.  My impression is that Indiana is different than some of the other Midwestern states like Ohio, Michigan, Wisconisn and Illinois.

Finally, if Hillary doesn't run, then I think the whole picture is scrambled.  Certainly, Mark Warner would be one of the beneficiaries as a DLC "sensible centrist" type.  Can he sustain it for 2 years?  That's a GREAT question, considering that Warner will be completing his term as Governor in under 2 months.  After that, he'll need a platform of some sort to make his voice heard, at least until the Democratic nomination race starts to heat up in late 2007.  Any thoughts on that from Warner supporters out there?  Thanks.

The reason I forwarded this to RaisingKaine is that in critiquing Democratic performance, especially as the Party of Opposition, is that the Dems always talk all over the map, unlike Republicans, who normally have a strong party line and a party discipline based on that of the Communist Party (complete with purges and character assassination). What this proposes is that Democrats, at least in the blogosphere, or, if you prefer, Progressives, speak with one voice on vital issues. I hope this is not an attempt to stifle dissent or cram us all into a Party-line straight jacket like the GOP. Of course, knowing the bumptious Democrats, this is not likely to happen.  I say the thought should be pursued further.  Some one has to start reining in these "resume padding monkeys" who dumb down Democratic candidates.

Good comments, especially that "spine of steel" ---Kaine may not have seemed loaded with charisma during the campaign, but the more you saw of him, the more you respected him. It will be interesting to see how things develop once he's on his own, out from under the overwhelming shadow of his mentor, Mark Warner.  As for Warner, I noticed that Mark Plotkin, one of WTOP's political commentators, complained that Warner did not actively support statehood for the District of Columbia, and asked "and he wants to be President?" Well, now, is that a factor? Hmmm. Warner has far better credentials than almost anyone lese on your, ah, short list of possible Democratic nominees. Now the election is behind him, I see he is going about introducing himself to the rest of the country. Given his heretofor media obscurity on the national level, he'll need lots of help from his loyal supporters. 

Actually, Tim Kaine has a hell of a lot charisma.  Of course charisma comes through a lot more through unscripted public moments, and folks who restrict themselves to such highly scripted moments as the debates or television commercials are only getting a very superficial impression of a candidate.

The truth is that Tim Kaine is great at getting a crowd excited and Mark Warner can get a crowd of supporters so fired up they will take on anybody or anyone.

I volunteered for the Kaine campaign for governor and now hardly a day goes by that someone I know tells me they want to help Mark Warner.  I just hope the Warner folks will reach out and harness all this volunteer fervor.

The Richmond Democrat
http://richmonddemocrat.blogspot.com/

The headline.."3 out of 4 Virginias Turning Blue," I would like to state that part of the 4th Virginia doesnt like being grouped with such a broad region *cough*, and is working to turn blue also.

Two other things about 2006 and 2008 come to mind: the growing problem of illegal immigrants, however you care to define it will probably be a factor, and the problem of those Diebold electronic voting machines, which are simply untrustworthy.

The Democratic Party must come to grips with the first problem with a feasible and fair policy before the extremists frame the problem and run away with it. And the entire question of hackable electronic voting machines and, in fact, the entire debased electoral system including gerrymandering can trip up even a tectonic shift in voting patterns.

Had another thought: was the above analysis using for comparison Kaine's figures compared with Warners? Or Kerry's--- in other words, governor-to-governor as against governor and the presidential race, which was more recent. Just a thought.

Teddy:  Right, this analysis only compared Kaine to Kerry, not to Warner. For analysis of THAT, click here.